Author Topic: Bloody Nimrod  (Read 1571 times)

Wowbagger

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    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Bloody Nimrod
« on: December 15, 2015, 11:43:53 am »
By Elgar. They are discussing it on R4 at the moment.

Am I alone in finding it a really frustrating piece of music to listen to? Elgar comes up with this great idea of a build-up to a climax, but the climax never comes. I find myself shouting at the radio "Do something with it, man!"

Coitus interruptus musica.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Bloody Nimrod
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2015, 02:38:59 pm »
Maybe the problem is that you're considering Nimrod in isolation from the rest of the Enigma Variations? It's merely the 9th of 14 parts, after all. The final variation is quite climactic.

In any case, I don't feel the same as you about Nimrod - it's a pretty much perfectly conceived piece in my book. Doesn't affect me like the cello concerto, but then very little does.

tiermat

  • According to Jane, I'm a Unisex SpaceAdmin
Re: Bloody Nimrod
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2015, 02:51:24 pm »
I thought "Dookie" and "American Idiot" were much, much better.
I feel like Captain Kirk, on a brand new planet every day, a little like King Kong on top of the Empire State

T42

  • Tea tank
Re: Bloody Nimrod
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2015, 02:56:51 pm »
Coitus interruptus musica.

The whole of Mahler sounds that way to me.
I've dusted all those old bottles and set them up straight.

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Bloody Nimrod
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2015, 03:07:50 pm »
Maybe the problem is that you're considering Nimrod in isolation from the rest of the Enigma Variations? It's merely the 9th of 14 parts, after all. The final variation is quite climactic.

In any case, I don't feel the same as you about Nimrod - it's a pretty much perfectly conceived piece in my book. Doesn't affect me like the cello concerto, but then very little does.

I have heard the lot on several occasions. My view of Nimrod goes back many years. I'm not just taking it in isolation: it was this morning's programme that prompted me to splent my veen.

I was very interested that the R4 programme today likened Nimrod to the slow movement of Beethoven's "Pathetique" sonata. I know this particular piece extremely well, having played the entire sonata from memory when I did my LGSM piano teaching diploma. It had never occurred to me that there might be a similarity between the two, but I could see the point the programme was making. The big difference is that the slow movement of the Pathetique works extremely well as a stand-alone piece and has clear direction (one of my music teachers thought its conclusion was very weak, as though Beethoven had just had enough and couldn't be bothered to finish it properly) whereas in my view Nimrod doesn't. I can't make up my mind whether it's simply that Beethoven was just lots better than Elgar (which of course he was) or whether Elgar was abiding by a fashion amongst late Romantic composers that their pieces ramble around a lot without doing much. I fully concur with T42's view of Mahler.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: Bloody Nimrod
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2015, 04:43:42 pm »
The big difference is that the slow movement of the Pathetique works extremely well as a stand-alone piece and has clear direction (one of my music teachers thought its conclusion was very weak, as though Beethoven had just had enough and couldn't be bothered to finish it properly) whereas in my view Nimrod doesn't.

Fair enough. For me, the way it progresses seems to suit the mood of the piece. ISTR Elgar said it was inspired by something that happened to him, so maybe that's just how he felt at the end of that episode. I dunno. I like it though - even if it is a bit of a cliché (I heard it at a funeral last week). See also Barber's Adagio.

Mahler has never done much for me.

Re: Bloody Nimrod
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2015, 09:19:58 pm »
All I can say about Elgar is that I'm very fond of some Vaughan-Williams works.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
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Re: Bloody Nimrod
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2015, 10:22:25 pm »
Elgar's music is not as bad as it sounds?
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Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Bloody Nimrod
« Reply #8 on: December 16, 2015, 02:52:46 pm »
I thought "Dookie" and "American Idiot" were much, much better.
;D ;D ;D
Getting there...

Re: Bloody Nimrod
« Reply #9 on: December 16, 2015, 02:53:39 pm »
Elgar's music is not as bad as it sounds?

Much better than Holst.

Re: Bloody Nimrod
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2015, 07:04:00 pm »
Elgar's music is not as bad as it sounds?

Much better than Holst.
I thought 'The Planets' was out of this world ....

Re: Bloody Nimrod
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2015, 08:49:28 pm »
Elgar's music is not as bad as it sounds?

Much better than Holst.
I thought 'The Planets' was out of this world ....

It's occasionally funny.

Wascally Weasel

  • Slayer of Dragons and killer of threads.
Re: Bloody Nimrod
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2015, 09:48:50 am »
"The Boeing E-3 was better"; discuss.

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
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Re: Bloody Nimrod
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2015, 10:39:04 am »
It certainly wasn't a patch on the Porsche 956.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Bloody Nimrod
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2015, 12:01:29 pm »
Elgar's music is not as bad as it sounds?

Much better than Holst.

Oi! No dissing one of our own!   A Clarionista at that!
Getting there...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Bloody Nimrod
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2015, 05:06:50 pm »
Elgar's music is not as bad as it sounds?

Much better than Holst.

Oi! No dissing one of our own!   A Clarionista at that!
Interesting. Elgar's cycling is well know but it's hard to see him in the Clarion. I didn't know that Holst was a cyclist too. Was he definitely a Clarionist? All I found was this, which is unsure:
Quote
In Fellowship is Life (pp49-50) Denis Pye mentions that the young Gustav Holst the composer best remembered for The Planets was involved with the Clarion. He was also a formidable cyclist though whether he ever rode with the Clarion CC we don't (or at least I don't) know.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/i.bullock/clarion/history_gustav.html

I've been intending, for far too long, to ride up to Malvern and get myself the book I think they sell there about Elgar's cycling. Now I can combine this with a visit to Holst's house in Cheltenham!
"Pick a flower on Earth and you move the farthest star." Dirac.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Bloody Nimrod
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2015, 06:20:50 pm »
Holst was in the Clarion CC.  Elgar unlikely.
Getting there...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Solar powered, tea fuelled cycle-wol
Re: Bloody Nimrod
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2015, 06:37:05 pm »
If you're sure of that, perhaps you should write to your fellows in Brighton and let them know so they can update that page. It doesn't mention any link with Brighton.
"Pick a flower on Earth and you move the farthest star." Dirac.

Re: Bloody Nimrod
« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2015, 07:33:37 pm »
Holst was in the Clarion CC.  Elgar unlikely.

I'm quite willing to accept that Holst was a talented cyclist.

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Bloody Nimrod
« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2015, 07:48:39 pm »
Holst was in the Clarion CC.  Elgar unlikely.

I'm quite willing to accept that Holst was a talented cyclist.

Of course he was.

https://goo.gl/maps/J7DA7ti9zqw

That's a blue plaque because Holst lived there. It's in Thaxted. Is there anything to do in Thaxted other than ride a bike?

https://goo.gl/maps/qnUxDeyd9Fy

Here's a better view, with Holst's blue plaque, the guildhall and the church spire. There is a very good tea room up that little road to the left.

It's a little known fact that when Holst composed the Planets he had the internal workings of a Sturmey Archer hub gear in mind.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Re: Bloody Nimrod
« Reply #20 on: December 20, 2015, 11:29:11 am »
There is a very good tea room up that little road to the left.

Thank you - I shall try to remember that. We normally go to the one on the right, opposite the guildhall, which is fine but doesn't attract superlatives.

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Bloody Nimrod
« Reply #21 on: December 20, 2015, 12:03:20 pm »
There is a very good tea room up that little road to the left.

Thank you - I shall try to remember that. We normally go to the one on the right, opposite the guildhall, which is fine but doesn't attract superlatives.

Oh bugger!

http://www.poppystearoom.co.uk/

That is sad.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Re: Bloody Nimrod
« Reply #22 on: December 20, 2015, 12:36:29 pm »
Oh.

I guess we'll keep going to the other place then.