Author Topic: Sleep  (Read 9147 times)

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Sleep
« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2018, 01:54:38 pm »
Camping is a problem now unless I have a hookup. I need a mains supply to keep my airways open!

If only you had some sort of enormous battery on wheels you could plug it into...

I don't know how to obtain mains power from a Leaf battery.

Plug in inverter?

Kim will be along shortly with all the efficiency/loss related reasons it would be a Bad Idea. Or not. I have no idea.

Yeah, it's bloody stupid:  You can run a respectably-sized inverter from the Leaf's 12V system, and the DC/DC converter will keep the 12V battery charged from the traction battery.  Problem is the car needs to be in 'ready to drive' mode (analogous to an ICE with the engine running) for that to happen, otherwise you deplete the 12V battery and - since that's used to power the computers and bootstrap the EV system - find yourself in the embarrassing situation of needing to jump-start your electric car.  Sure, it doesn't make a noise, but it's inefficient, does waste power on other ancillary systems (eg. the running lights), and means that anyone could hop in the car and drive off with it.

So yeah, reasonable for running a power tool or something, but not really for keeping a PAP machine going all night.

Seems like a missed opportunity that EVs can't efficiently output mains power, preferably cutting off automatically at a pre-selected charge level, so you don't get stranded.  (Perhaps using the BFO inverter that they already have on board to drive the motor.  All it would really need would be a contactor, the right software and some wiring.)  I expect it's a feature we'll start to see in the vans and off-road vehicles as they appear.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Sleep
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2018, 06:43:05 pm »
What makes it sillier is that this machine would be great at pumping up downmats.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Sleep
« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2018, 07:22:59 pm »
What makes it sillier is that this machine would be great at pumping up downmats.

I bet that would make the stats look interesting.  :)
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Sleep
« Reply #53 on: July 12, 2018, 08:57:12 am »
Can you rig up a solar panel and leisure battery system like the campervans?

Trouble is, I tend to sleep at night. How about a lunar panel?

Charge the battery in the day and use it at night. You could have two batteries on relay if one is insufficient. There are some on ebay that specifiacally mention use for CPAP, although I don't know haw feasible it actually is.
Quote from: Kim
^ This woman knows what she's talking about.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Sleep
« Reply #54 on: July 12, 2018, 12:09:01 pm »
If we're serious about this, then knowing the power requirements of the machine would be useful.  If it can be fed DC from a suitable battery, that could greatly simplify matters.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...


Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Sleep
« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2018, 02:02:23 pm »
The manual quotes 51W typical consumption (106W peak) with the Air10.  So you're looking at a battery in the 400-500Wh range.  That's e-bike size, though annoyingly most e-bike systems use higher voltages.

A 20-30Ah 24V leisure battery might be a reasonable option (LiFePO4 if you want to keep the weight/bulk down).  Obviously you'd need to be able to charge it up during the day...
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Sleep
« Reply #57 on: July 13, 2018, 07:59:07 pm »
Oh bollocks - but not that surprising.

The DVLA have revoked my licence. They have an online questionnaire that sleep apnoea patients are legally obliged to fill in - big fines and possible imprisonment for telling porkies. There was a bit in it about "Is your condition controlled?" Given that, last Sunday, I fell asleep so abruptly that the hot cup of tea I was holding ended up in my lap, I could hardly honestly say that it is.

So I have to wait and see whether the treatment I am currently undergoing has any beneficial effect, and whether my consultant agrees that I am responding to treatment.

Whereas I have no qualms about the morality of my licence being revoked, it sticks in the craw rather that even suffering from this condition, my driving is a bloody sight better that a lot of the totally unsuitable bastards I see hurtling around in metal boxes.

Fuckity-fuck.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Sleep
« Reply #58 on: July 13, 2018, 08:24:23 pm »
The good news is that I have another mask to play with - one that will not be interfered with by Beard. Nose-hairs must, however, be trimmed.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Re: Sleep
« Reply #59 on: July 13, 2018, 08:57:33 pm »
Oh that's a pain Wowbagger!
Quote from: Kim
^ This woman knows what she's talking about.

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Sleep
« Reply #60 on: July 14, 2018, 09:04:56 am »
My problem is that I am too honest for my own bloody good sometimes.

That cup of tea incident last weekend really put the wind up me and I felt I couldn't possibly answer that my condition was under control. I should have given myself a bit of time to see how things transpired. Last night, however, with the nasal mask, I achieved a perfect score of 100 on the company's website. The mask fit score was 20/20. It was an excellent night's sleep and I feel much more refreshed this morning.

I have the right of appeal against the DVLA's decision through my local magistrates' court, which I intend to do. This is new evidence.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Sleep
« Reply #61 on: July 18, 2018, 09:44:31 am »
The best night so far...

8 hours 28 minutes wearing the mask. Some mornings I have been "marking time" just to get to 7 hours on the machine for the highest possible nightly score. Not last night: I slept almost all of those hours and only had 2.2 events per hour - the second lowest total.

Now - here is a fascinating question. Why is it that I am not needing to get up for a wee in the middle of the night when I am on this machine? We were told that this would be the case, but I can't get my head round it. I would have thought that in deep sleep the kidneys would be clearing out the grot as fast as ever.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Sleep
« Reply #62 on: July 18, 2018, 10:39:04 am »
Needing a wee is highly subjective IME, vis not only the consumption of certain pharmaceuticals which suppress the urge dramatically, but whether you're sufficiently distracted by being asleep, sitting an exam, being prodded with an ultrasound scanner, desperately trying to keep up with the Germans in a silly bike race, or whatever.  Conversely, the sound of rain on canvas when it's a decent trek to the bogs has the opposite effect.  It's certainly not a simple function of bladder volume.

I think it's like anything else that bothers you disproportionately when you're failing to sleep (noise, light, uncomfortable bed, pain, beastie bites, existential dread, whatever) but isn't actually a problem if you do manage to conk out.  You sleep through, the bladder does actually have enough capacity for the whole night (bear in mind that unless you're on a drip there's no new input of water to your system while you're asleep, so the kidneys will remove less as the night goes on), and you wake up needing the loo as normal.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Sleep
« Reply #63 on: July 18, 2018, 11:03:32 am »
Now - here is a fascinating question. Why is it that I am not needing to get up for a wee in the middle of the night when I am on this machine? We were told that this would be the case, but I can't get my head round it. I would have thought that in deep sleep the kidneys would be clearing out the grot as fast as ever.

You only pee when you're awake. Before you started using the CPAP, you were frequently waking up enough that you needed a pee. Now that you're sleeping much better, you're not waking up so much, if at all. Waking up in the night for a pee can be a sign that you have sleep apnoea.

In time, you might start sleeping for fewer hours each night as well, once you catch up on what must be a very big sleep deficit.



I've just started trying mouth taping a few days ago. Literally taping my mouth shut with medical tape so that I breathe through my nose when I sleep. Plus I'm still using my nose vents.

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Sleep
« Reply #64 on: July 18, 2018, 12:02:14 pm »
@Kim - we were told that the kidneys actually partially close down in deep sleep. I have definitely noticed a smaller volume when I have woken up. Given what I have learned through Dez's tribulations over the years, it sounds very counter-intuitive. I asked the guy to explain why it was that the kidneys produced less and unless I dramatically misheard him, he said that the kidneys were muscles that need as much rest as any other muscle, or words to that effect. I didn't want to ask a supplementary as otherwise it turns into an argument, but that just doesn't sound right to me.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Sleep
« Reply #65 on: July 18, 2018, 12:13:14 pm »
IANA physiologist, but presumably that's all part of the shift in balance from the usual waking functions to things like digestion and cell growth.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Sleep
« Reply #66 on: July 18, 2018, 01:41:52 pm »
The body (usually1) secretes antidiuretic hormone when you sleep reducing urine production.

This hormone is sometimes supplied as a nasal spray for kids with a bedwetting problem.

1) I am aware that injury and illness mean not all those here do.

Re: Sleep
« Reply #67 on: July 18, 2018, 04:32:29 pm »
helly is right.

in addition you only need a pee because the message reaches your brain with enough urgency to rouse you from sleep.

If you are in light sleep and waking regularly even a low grade signal will push you into wakefulness and up you get.  Conversely in deep sleep the signal has to get to fire alarm status before you wake. Some legal intoxicants obtund the brain even further leading to episodes of bed wetting at university and in early adult life.

The system involved I believe is the Ascending reticular activating system to the best of my memory but the CNS is a dark art.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Sleep
« Reply #68 on: July 18, 2018, 08:48:00 pm »
Also, if I wake, I think 'I might as well get up for a pee' no matter how long it might have been since my last visit.

Speaking for myself, using the bathroom is one of things I do if I'm not sleeping for any reason. Sometimes the change of scene/posture helps me settle.

Kim

  • Timelord
Re: Sleep
« Reply #69 on: July 18, 2018, 08:50:49 pm »
Also, if I wake, I think 'I might as well get up for a pee' no matter how long it might have been since my last visit.

Exactly.  If nothing else, it means that whatever's then stopping your from sleeping, it won't be your bladder.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Sleep
« Reply #70 on: July 18, 2018, 08:53:34 pm »
Also, if I wake, I think 'I might as well get up for a pee' no matter how long it might have been since my last visit.

Exactly.  If nothing else, it means that whatever's then stopping your from sleeping, it won't be your bladder.

Indeed!

Re: Sleep
« Reply #71 on: July 18, 2018, 10:51:27 pm »
Successful CPAP treatment means you will be having long periods of R.E.M. sleep and during that period your body is paralysed to stop you acting out dreams.   It’s this stage of sleep where the real rest and healing happens which is why lack of it is so harmful.  Sleep apnea patients left untreated have virtually no R.E.M. and consequently needing a pee often during the night is a very good signal of appneas occurring.   

Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Sleep
« Reply #72 on: July 19, 2018, 11:50:02 pm »
I have a ticket for the "sleeper" to Scotland on Monday. I am told that there are no 3-pin plugs in the cabins. Apparently the new rolling stock, being introduced in October, has some.

I will just have to have a night without my machine.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Valiant

  • aka Sam
    • Radiance Audio
Re: Sleep
« Reply #73 on: July 20, 2018, 01:07:48 am »
You can get travel and 12v machines :) The Dreamstation Go is one and has changeable batteries.
You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.

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Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Sleep
« Reply #74 on: July 30, 2018, 06:52:52 pm »
I have just been awarded a "GOLD" badge for use of my CPAP machine. That is awarded to people who complete at least 21 nights of 6 hours or more in a 30 day period. I did that in 23 days. The two nights that were less than 6 hours were the 5 hour 24 minute night which was the last night with the full-face mask, when I got totally fed up with it, and last Monday night when I was on the sleeper to Edinburgh and had no electricity supply available.

Something has slowly dawned on me. For years now I haven't read a book all the way through - or if I have I can't remember it. I think the reason is that I have been reading a couple of pages, falling asleep, re-reading those pages, falling asleep, getting fed up and not finishing the book. Today, on the Edinburgh to London train, I read about 100 pages of a book I started about 3 weeks ago. I didn't fall asleep once, despite my wine glass being refilled 5 times!
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.