Author Topic: Novice running  (Read 14036 times)

Re: Novice running
« Reply #100 on: October 31, 2019, 04:55:54 pm »
I'm thinking of getting a Garmin Forerunner or similar.

Do any of these watches / activity trackers allow you to run the couch to 5k app? Do they have an OS as such?

I have a 735XT and I simply do a custom training session for C25K.  Having seen Greenbank's post I have downloaded the app and will play with it.

I had to stop running due to a failed experiment with Inov8 Parkclaws and have just restarted having had eight months recovery.  I'm running with a novice runner and no-so-novice guide so we're doing C25K together except that we are doing two sessions per week but doing four of each week, not three as per the schedule. 

Now, off to tinker with this app ...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Waking up now, put the kettle on!
Re: Novice running
« Reply #101 on: October 31, 2019, 05:15:23 pm »
*In my head camels run inefficiently, limbs flailing - like Phoebe.
I was wondering why the daughter of Uranus and Gaea would run with flailing limbs. Then I googled "phoebe running" and discovered this refers to a character from Friends. So let's just pretend that Wowbagger's hijacked my account.  :D

But running is great fun. In a similar way to sprinting as hard as you can on a bike. Not that I can run for 5km, 500m would be my utmost limit.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

Re: Novice running
« Reply #102 on: November 01, 2019, 03:59:58 pm »
Thanks all. Now to choose which Garmin to get. Some of them are much more expensive than I had realised - into Apple watch territory really.

Do the Garmin Forerunners have good vibrating alerts, for those who don't hear so well? 


Re: Novice running
« Reply #103 on: November 01, 2019, 04:22:58 pm »
IMO the c25k app is rubbish.  It works as a data field only on your device and is very inflexible.  I'll be sticking to creating and updating my own c25k workouts.

I also use a QuadLock case and armband so that I can carry my phone if I wish.  It has proven to be an excellent bit of kit.  They sell many other mounts for car, motorbike and bicycle use too as well as a tripod mount and a desk mount.  Pricey but well thought out.

Re: Novice running
« Reply #104 on: November 01, 2019, 06:27:58 pm »
IMO the c25k app is rubbish.  It works as a data field only on your device and is very inflexible.  I'll be sticking to creating and updating my own c25k workouts.

I also use a QuadLock case and armband so that I can carry my phone if I wish.  It has proven to be an excellent bit of kit.  They sell many other mounts for car, motorbike and bicycle use too as well as a tripod mount and a desk mount.  Pricey but well thought out.

I use the BBC Get Inspired C25k app. All it does is get Sarah Millican to tell me when to walk and when to run and on that basis it’s excellent - I require nothing more.

I have much QuadLock stuff: arm band, car mount and bike mount plus poncho waterproof cover - all excellent. The phone case itself is brill and provide a good deal of protection.

Re: Novice running
« Reply #105 on: November 05, 2019, 08:08:04 am »
I've started jogging again (can't really call it running, I'm too slow).
The cardio fitness is there, from my kayaking, but my legs just don't have the toughness.
Jog to the nearest train station to get in to work - about 4.4km. Did that once last week. Jog to riverbank carrying kayak and back (post paddle) - 800m each way, twice this weekend. Well, saturday wasn't a jog, it was in a gale, I could hardly stay upright.

Ran in this morning, I'll have to run home tonight, so that will be nearly 9km in the day. I hope my legs forgive me.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Novice running
« Reply #106 on: November 06, 2019, 07:40:34 am »
IMO the c25k app is rubbish.  It works as a data field only on your device and is very inflexible.  I'll be sticking to creating and updating my own c25k workouts.

I also use a QuadLock case and armband so that I can carry my phone if I wish.  It has proven to be an excellent bit of kit.  They sell many other mounts for car, motorbike and bicycle use too as well as a tripod mount and a desk mount.  Pricey but well thought out.

I use the BBC Get Inspired C25k app. All it does is get Sarah Millican to tell me when to walk and when to run and on that basis it’s excellent - I require nothing more.

I have much QuadLock stuff: arm band, car mount and bike mount plus poncho waterproof cover - all excellent. The phone case itself is brill and provide a good deal of protection.

I too have the C25K app on my phone and listen to Laura but it requires me to carry the phone.  Yes, the Quadlock adjustable armband is a superior beast but I'd like the app on my watch if at all possible.

I record my 'workouts' with the Garmin Forerunner 735XT watch so it would be convenient if nothing else to have the app on the watch.

Thanks all. Now to choose which Garmin to get. Some of them are much more expensive than I had realised - into Apple watch territory really.

Do the Garmin Forerunners have good vibrating alerts, for those who don't hear so well? 



Garmin Forerunners have a very good vibrating alert ime.  Almost too good.

Re: Novice running
« Reply #107 on: November 06, 2019, 09:41:10 am »
You crazy kids with your crazy gizmos.

I used a watch, and remembered when to start/stop.
L'enfer, c'est les autos.

Re: Novice running
« Reply #108 on: February 21, 2020, 07:29:01 am »
I’m back on the program. I stopped in October after a fall (not while running). Started Cto5k again in January and I’ve just finished week 6 (25 mins, no stops).

All the usual benefits: more energy, clearer thinking, flappy waist bands, smugness.

 :thumbsup:
L'enfer, c'est les autos.

Re: Novice running
« Reply #109 on: February 21, 2020, 08:40:16 am »
I’m back on the program. I stopped in October after a fall (not while running). Started Cto5k again in January and I’ve just finished week 6 (25 mins, no stops).

All the usual benefits: more energy, clearer thinking, flappy waist bands, smugness.

 :thumbsup:

Having done C25k twice now I’ve kind of fallen out of the habit. We had to change gyms at the beginning of January as the original went bust. I started a new job at the same time so was away a lot. I might have to start C25k again as I like the structure of it. Shame there isn’t a follow on program.

Re: Novice running
« Reply #110 on: February 21, 2020, 09:31:52 am »
I'm having another enforced pause due to what I think is a shin splint in my left leg - pain on the bone itself, above the ankle on the inside. Haven't run since Sunday. Recovery seems annoyingly slow. Doing the usual recommended exercises doesn't seem to be having much effect other than making the unaffected side hurt a bit.

Re: Novice running
« Reply #111 on: February 21, 2020, 10:31:55 am »
Thanks all. Now to choose which Garmin to get. Some of them are much more expensive than I had realised - into Apple watch territory really.

Do the Garmin Forerunners have good vibrating alerts, for those who don't hear so well?

I have a 245 Music, which can be had for £220. Got rid of a Ssmsung Gear 2 Pro that did all the smart watch stuff but not enough of the performance metrics and training programmes that I wanted.

Love everything about it, and I'm still not really in deep with it.

WRT running, I've just started after not really running (in a very haphazard way) since late 90s. Have had a few false starts in intervening years that have gone tits up through overdoing it without realising and ending up with injury

Problem is I can already do 5k easily without stopping, or even trying that hard, so I'm having to dial it right back to let my joints and ligaments catch up. I have been cheating and doing 15 minute runs with 5 minutes walk either end, but even that might be too much.

On the plus side, I've had a serious yoga and pilates habit for 4+ years, and I'm relatively slim (10st6 to 10st 12), so form feels pretty good in that I'm upright and not fighting my body.

Re: Novice running
« Reply #112 on: February 21, 2020, 11:06:28 am »
Problem is I can already do 5k easily without stopping, or even trying that hard, so I'm having to dial it right back to let my joints and ligaments catch up. I have been cheating and doing 15 minute runs with 5 minutes walk either end, but even that might be too much.

On the plus side, I've had a serious yoga and pilates habit for 4+ years, and I'm relatively slim (10st6 to 10st 12), so form feels pretty good in that I'm upright and not fighting my body.

I'm similar in that in terms of breathing and general stamina I'm not too bad at all - it's the joints and ligaments that are taking time to adapt. So far, after 5 weeks of the programme, I've had minor knee pains (now gone), some foot bone pain (seems to have gone), a glute maximus tear (that one required 2 months off and a restart), medial glute pain (now gone), and the latest is shin splints.

I'm also a pilates veteran (6 or 7 years now, 2 or 3 times a week) but it's low or no impact. Cycling is the same. That's part of the reason I have started running: there are benefits from regular exercise involving impact, within reason. I'm hoping that the benefits outweigh the risk of injury - and I'm hoping that the risk of injury will reduce once I've been through this adaptation process.

Still haven't bought a Garmin or other watch. Next item on the list is gait analysis and new trainers.

Re: Novice running
« Reply #113 on: February 21, 2020, 08:07:26 pm »
Problem is I can already do 5k easily without stopping, or even trying that hard, so I'm having to dial it right back to let my joints and ligaments catch up. I have been cheating and doing 15 minute runs with 5 minutes walk either end, but even that might be too much.

On the plus side, I've had a serious yoga and pilates habit for 4+ years, and I'm relatively slim (10st6 to 10st 12), so form feels pretty good in that I'm upright and not fighting my body.

I'm similar in that in terms of breathing and general stamina I'm not too bad at all - it's the joints and ligaments that are taking time to adapt. So far, after 5 weeks of the programme, I've had minor knee pains (now gone), some foot bone pain (seems to have gone), a glute maximus tear (that one required 2 months off and a restart), medial glute pain (now gone), and the latest is shin splints.

I'm also a pilates veteran (6 or 7 years now, 2 or 3 times a week) but it's low or no impact. Cycling is the same. That's part of the reason I have started running: there are benefits from regular exercise involving impact, within reason. I'm hoping that the benefits outweigh the risk of injury - and I'm hoping that the risk of injury will reduce once I've been through this adaptation process.

Still haven't bought a Garmin or other watch. Next item on the list is gait analysis and new trainers.

It’s normal for CV development to be faster than muscle and general ‘resilience’ to the work of running. This often leads to injuries in novice runners as they increase speed/distance faster than their body can adapt to accommodate. Be patient and you’ll get there.

Connective tissues and bone take quite long time to build. Also shin splints (compartment syndromes) are pretty common at this stage. Go fast slowly:)

Re: Novice running
« Reply #114 on: February 21, 2020, 08:59:04 pm »
Connective tissues and bone take quite long time to build. Also shin splints (compartment syndromes) are pretty common at this stage. Go fast slowly:)

Thanks sojournermike.

At least I think it’s shin splints. When I’ve had this before (or what I have always believed to be shin splints) it’s been more on the front of the leg, and on both legs. This is a similar sensation but on the inside of the distal 3rd of the lower leg. The pain is over the bone (or where tendons run over bone) rather than in muscle.

Re: Novice running
« Reply #115 on: March 01, 2020, 12:14:59 pm »
I’m a bit stuck. I’ve just re-done W6R1 after resting all week since doing the same for the past couple of Sundays.

This pain in the tendons running down the inside of my lower leg, for maybe 10 cm above the ankle joint itself, is persisting. It’s medial, maybe extending more towards the end of calf muscle at the back rather than in front of the shin. Mostly OK when walking, ok when running, but pain when exercising the calf muscle (as online advice seems to suggest is helpful) or when inverting the foot. Cycling doesn’t seem to bother it much, less so than long walks for example. Exercise involving inversion of the foot makes it worse, irritates it.

Resting it is somewhat difficult, given that I ride to work and I’m on my feet or on the move for most of the day. I have given Pilates a rest and I’m doing less non-work walking. I’ve been carrying on with my trial C25K run on Sundays just to see if things are improving (I’m only actually running for 18 minutes at this stage) and to avoid having to lose progress in the programme. I’m stuck on Week 6.

Went to get fitted for new trainers yesterday, to be told that my existing ones were correct for my gait but that better insoles might help, so I got those.

I’m reluctant to stop running entirely, mostly because running doesn’t make it worse. It may even be related to resumption of cycling after a long pause rather than running. 

Any suggestions?


Re: Novice running
« Reply #116 on: March 01, 2020, 12:47:49 pm »
I had calf muscle pain last year, without any apparent event causing it. Things I’ve tried for that, and niggles I’ve noticed since...
 - 2 or 3 weeks off the running, and restart with shorter / more walk to run
 - more trail / less pavement as it’s softer and more varied
 - gentle hills rather than flat, for variety in muscle use
 - take the build up of distance more slowly

I hope it recovers soon.

Re: Novice running
« Reply #117 on: March 01, 2020, 01:02:21 pm »
Thanks perpetual dan.

The symptoms seem to fit medial tibial stress syndrome very closely:

https://bjsm.bmj.com/content/45/2/e2.31

Feels like irritated tendons or tendon sheath. Probably a bit of inflammation and slight swelling going on which doesn’t help. Recommendations include running on softer surfaces (did that last week, too wet this week) and appropriate trainers and insoles (done).

More rest seems to be a common recommendation:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2848339/

Not sure how I can rest it any more than I am doing now but I’ll try for a week

nicknack

  • Hornblower
Re: Novice running
« Reply #118 on: April 02, 2020, 02:36:46 pm »
I suspected there'd be a thread for would be runners somewhere, and here it is.

Reading through, I have discovered the Couch to 5k plan which sounds a bit like it might do the trick.

I have a few concerns that I hope someone here might help me with.

I'm 67 and haven't run anywhere since 1974. I was advised by a cardiologist last year (I have a bit of heart disease - not enough for stent but enough for beta-blockers) that I ought to do something about being a fat, lazy bastard. Lose weight, more exercise then. I started with the diet in January and I'm down from 110kg to 100kg (I'm 193cm tall). That's not going too bad. On the exercise front I've been a bit slow in starting. I haven't cycled anywhere for ages but I still do a bit of walking.

A few days ago I read somewhere again that it's never too late to start running. I have no idea of the truth of that statement but I thought I'd go with it anyway. I tried jogging on the spot for a few minutes (3 was quite enough). I didn't die but my calf muscles wondered what the hell was going on. I wasn't at all breathless, which shouldn't have been surprising given the gentle nature of it. The surprise came, though, when I checked my heart rate (I have one of those fitness tracker watch thingies). It peaked at 158. This bothered me a bit since 153 should be my max and in the 2 years I've had the tracker I've never gone above 140. I thought it odd that jogging on the spot for 3 minutes should get my heart going more than doing a 2 hour gig on baritone sax that leaves me drowned in sweat and considerably breathless.

I decided to ignore my worries and carry on. In the last 4 days I've done 2x4 min sessions each day of jogging on-spot or around the house. My heart rate has not been as high as the first one but averages out at about 140. I'll get outside sometime.

Is there anything I should be concerned about or look out for? I know they always say, "See your doctor!" before attempting anything like this but, for obvious reasons, that's not really an option at the moment.

Cheers all. I hope you're all coping with the current weirdness.
There's no vibrations, but wait.

Re: Novice running
« Reply #119 on: April 02, 2020, 02:49:29 pm »
I've no idea what to advice regarding heart rate.  I am a massive fan of Couch to 5k, I think there are a few, I've always gone with the BBC Get Inspired version and use the iPhone app.  The thing about C25K (assuming you don't know) is you start by mixing brisk walking with running, in the early weeks you do more walking than running, if you think you are struggling you can always repeat a week before moving on.

I'd also suggest having your gait analysed by your local reputable running shop and buying the running shoes they advise - obviously that's going to be a problem at the moment.

fuaran

  • rothair gasta
Re: Novice running
« Reply #120 on: April 02, 2020, 03:04:28 pm »
Many of these cheap wrist heart rate monitors can be inaccurate. Especially while running, and more movement in your arms etc.

Also any of these 'rules' for calculating heart rate can be inaccurate. Presumably you have just done 220-age? That mostly works as an average, but some people have much higher max heart rates than that, some have lower. Doesn't necessarily mean you are healthy or not.

nicknack

  • Hornblower
Re: Novice running
« Reply #121 on: April 02, 2020, 03:36:04 pm »
Many of these cheap wrist heart rate monitors can be inaccurate. Especially while running, and more movement in your arms etc.

Also any of these 'rules' for calculating heart rate can be inaccurate. Presumably you have just done 220-age? That mostly works as an average, but some people have much higher max heart rates than that, some have lower. Doesn't necessarily mean you are healthy or not.
I have a chest monitor somewhere I can use for comparison. It's certainly accurate at lower heart rates.

Yes, all I've done regarding max rate is the 220-age thing. I wouldn't know how to judge otherwise.

Something else which may be relevant is that my heart returns to its normal resting rate (about 60) in a minute or so.
There's no vibrations, but wait.

Re: Novice running
« Reply #122 on: April 02, 2020, 10:41:51 pm »
Many of these cheap wrist heart rate monitors can be inaccurate. Especially while running, and more movement in your arms etc.

Also any of these 'rules' for calculating heart rate can be inaccurate. Presumably you have just done 220-age? That mostly works as an average, but some people have much higher max heart rates than that, some have lower. Doesn't necessarily mean you are healthy or not.
I have a chest monitor somewhere I can use for comparison. It's certainly accurate at lower heart rates.

Yes, all I've done regarding max rate is the 220-age thing. I wouldn't know how to judge otherwise.

Something else which may be relevant is that my heart returns to its normal resting rate (about 60) in a minute or so.

As Fuaran says, max HR is individual and the average isn't really much use to be honest. The point about max HR is that it is as fast as your heart will beat - you cannot exceed it. So (not medical advice!) don't worry too much about it.

If you want to monitor heart rate while running, a chest strap and watch is the best solution, but the recent Garmin watches do pretty well with their wrist sensors and monitor HR through the day too. I have a 935 which I usually, but not always, use with a chest strap for running and wear all day as a tracker. It tells the time too:) My old 235 was also a nice watch and now graces the wrist of one of our compatriots on here.

I really like the Couch to 5k plan, but be aware that it is too fast for some people. Be happy to repeat weeks and build up more slowly if you feel like it. Running less is better than sitting at home nursing an injury.

I'm not sure you need a gait analysis at this point. You will likely find that your feet and legs are weak from not running for years and carrying more weight than desirable. But you're not going to run far for a fair few weeks and the research suggests that shoes that are comfy to run in are the best ones to wear. Plus, by building up slowly enough to let your body adapt in terms of strength and bone density etc, you may either avoid injury altogether or find that your biomechanics evolve into wanting something different after a while anyway. I'd look for some nice stable, but not overly corrective, shoes and see how it goes. Listen to your body and learn when things are more than just a bit of carried over fatigue. Unless your willing to progress really really slowly with a higher risk of achilles injury, I would avoid any barefoot or minimalist shoes at this point - but habitually walking around the house and garden barefoot is good;)

Most of all, enjoy it. And take care of the ticker


nicknack

  • Hornblower
Re: Novice running
« Reply #123 on: April 02, 2020, 11:12:37 pm »
Thank you. I'll see what happens tomorrow when I try the first walk/run.
There's no vibrations, but wait.

Re: Novice running
« Reply #124 on: April 03, 2020, 05:29:33 am »
nicknack,

Forget the 220 minus age guff.  I am 57 yet regularly push my max HR beyond 170 with no apparent issues.  We are each different.  In fact, in two hours time I will have done so yet again.

I use HR data simply as a long term guide to progress.  Comparing data over many months shows trends and largely negates the inaccuracy of the kit. 

Chest straps with any wearable are far more accurate than wrist sensors but the gap is closing.

My advice:  don't be scared to walk, don't see walking as failure and don't think that you are failing if you cannot stick to the C25K schedule.  I managed it with extras but I know a man who is stuck in a seemingly infinite week 3 repeat loop.  Also, go find Cheltenham running club on youtube.  They are a fine example of how to approach going from no running to achieving 5k.

Each time to do a session you should see that as progress regardless of actual vs expected/hoped for outcome.  Trying to compare your own performance with the expectations of a nine week programme or what you did two or three days ago even is sheer folly.  Comparison is the thief of joy.  Check out the Running Channel on youtube and you will find my blatant plagiarism!

My local club also does a beginners programme and it's 14 weeks, not 9.

You might get the idea that I have found youtube resources to be both supportive and motivational.  This is so.   There is loads of C25K content there: another that I found motivating is by a chap called Andy Clayton.  Find whatever ticks your box.

Hope it goes well for you.

One last observation:  Only a very small percentage of those who try actually complete C25K.  Only a very small percentage of those who complete C25K manage to run 5k in the 30 minutes that week 9 allows in it's schedule.  I ran 5k's for my week 9 sessions timed at 33 minutes and a handful of seconds.  If I keep going I will hit and break 30 minutes but the achievement for me was 30 minutes continuous running where only weeks ago 1 minute was bloody hard.