Author Topic: Pinch point strategy (Read 22984 times)

Aunt Maud · « **Reply #100 on:** 12 February, 2015, 01:06:09 pm »

I rode with Tomsk on Sunday, he waves at everybody. I'm surprised he does't have tennis elbow.

hellymedic · « **Reply #101 on:** 12 February, 2015, 01:33:56 pm »

The 'unchback of Edgware can't see behind 'erself sitting on a bar-stool in the kitchen.

Though I was less hunched when I was cycling, I was never really able to do an effective shoulder check.

I think some people just can't do an effective shoulder check and that's possibly why they don't do them.

PeteB99 · « **Reply #102 on:** 12 February, 2015, 04:58:17 pm »

Due to a neck injury when I was 16 I can look over my left shoulder fine. Looking over my right involves rotating my upper body about 30 degrees

Kim · « **Reply #103 on:** 12 February, 2015, 06:11:37 pm »

This is of course what mirrors are for. You can't do a shoulder check on a 'bent either. Which is actually an improvement in terms of seeing what's going on behind you, but means you need to indicate to show your intentions.

JennyB · « **Reply #104 on:** 12 February, 2015, 06:28:17 pm »

Quote from: LMT on 12 February, 2015, 12:16:17 pm

I'm not a fan of making hand gestures which are not in the HC or understood (imo) by most of the general public.

IME, a shoulder check is more then sufficient (and in most cases) will stop a motorist trying to do a close pass on the approach to a pinch point.

Shoulder check first of course. I only do it if they look likely to pass and I can't get comfortably out of the way, for instance, if I see something upcoming that they might not have. Yes it may be misunderstood, but IMO it's highly unlikely to be mistaken as "Come on through" whereas a shoulder check on it's own might be read as "I've seen you. You're OK."

Jacomus · « **Reply #105 on:** 16 March, 2015, 02:39:57 pm »

Pinch points are universally shite, even the ones that have a cycle cut-out.

This one https://goo.gl/maps/he9Ln is a nasty one. Due to drivers inability to drive at a sensible speed / bother controlling their vehicle properly, they can't avoid nosing into the cycle lane as they exit the little chicane. Even if they are going at a sensible speed, it's still disconcerting to have them essentially drive right at you.

You can do your best to manage the gap, easing off so that the inevitable cut in doesn't involve you... but it's nasty if there is a flow of heavy traffic coming through.

Pickled Onion · « **Reply #106 on:** 16 March, 2015, 03:01:04 pm »

That's pretty bad.

Try this one: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.558869,-0.231937,3a,75y,97.54h,81.62t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1soqrqZ669_TYjynmDa4nurg!2e0

Not only does the cut start _after_ the point where drivers have moved in to avoid the pedestrian island, it then pushes you back out just before the roundabout, ie where the drivers are all looking to their right! And then, just for good measure, there's an added sticking out bit with bollard things on it to swerve round just at the entrance to the roundabout. And no, the tarmac on the left is not a cycle path. What were they thinking?

Jacomus · « **Reply #107 on:** 16 March, 2015, 03:04:43 pm »

Yuck! That is really poorly designed. I'll bet that drivers DGAF about that ridiculous sticking out bit either.

Asterix, the former Gaul. · « **Reply #108 on:** 16 March, 2015, 03:31:22 pm »

Quote from: JennyB on 12 February, 2015, 06:28:17 pm

Quote from: LMT on 12 February, 2015, 12:16:17 pm

I'm not a fan of making hand gestures which are not in the HC or understood (imo) by most of the general public.

IME, a shoulder check is more then sufficient (and in most cases) will stop a motorist trying to do a close pass on the approach to a pinch point.

Shoulder check first of course. I only do it if they look likely to pass and I can't get comfortably out of the way, for instance, if I see something upcoming that they might not have. Yes it may be misunderstood, but IMO it's highly unlikely to be mistaken as "Come on through" whereas a shoulder check on it's own might be read as "I've seen you. You're OK."

I'd do a turning right signal. Something I have done quite often if I think a car is going to make a dangerous overtake. A car was about to overtake me on a bend when I could see a horse and rider approaching just round it so I stuck my arm out. Got a wave of thanks from the horse rider, anyway. The horse didn't seem to care.

hubner · « **Reply #109 on:** 17 March, 2015, 05:12:04 pm »

Quote

I'd do a turning right signal. Something I have done quite often if I think a car is going to make a dangerous overtake. A car was about to overtake me on a bend when I could see a horse and rider approaching just round it so I stuck my arm out. Got a wave of thanks from the horse rider, anyway. The horse didn't seem to care.

I use the "right arm out" quite lot. Eg whenever the road gets narrow and I hear or see a car coming up from behind, esp if they're going fast. It usually stops a close overtake, but it's wearing having to do constantly look behind.

Jacomus · « **Reply #110 on:** 18 March, 2015, 09:15:57 am »

Quote from: hubner on 17 March, 2015, 05:12:04 pm

Quote
I'd do a turning right signal. Something I have done quite often if I think a car is going to make a dangerous overtake. A car was about to overtake me on a bend when I could see a horse and rider approaching just round it so I stuck my arm out. Got a wave of thanks from the horse rider, anyway. The horse didn't seem to care.

I use the "right arm out" quite lot. Eg whenever the road gets narrow and I hear or see a car coming up from behind, esp if they're going fast. It usually stops a close overtake, but it's wearing having to do constantly look behind.

I am completely converted to having a mirror now. Makes a large, positive impact on my situational awareness.

hatler · « **Reply #111 on:** 18 March, 2015, 09:17:45 am »

Completely agree with that ^ ^ ^

andyoxon · « **Reply #112 on:** 25 January, 2016, 09:06:29 pm »

New one tonight. Approaching a local pinchpoint on 40mph, streetlit road, I took the lane as I always do here (given road layout on other side too). The car approaching from behind didn't slow at all, and overtook me on the other/wrong side of the central island at 40-50mph.

jsabine · « **Reply #113 on:** 25 January, 2016, 09:13:51 pm »

I've had that a good bit: I don't mind it too much, as long as visibility's good enough that it's obvious there's no-one coming the other way.

At least it proves they've seen you ...

Ian H · « **Reply #114 on:** 25 January, 2016, 09:25:47 pm »

Quote from: Jacomus on 16 March, 2015, 02:39:57 pm

Pinch points are universally shite, even the ones that have a cycle cut-out.

This one https://goo.gl/maps/he9Ln is a nasty one. Due to drivers inability to drive at a sensible speed / bother controlling their vehicle properly, they can't avoid nosing into the cycle lane as they exit the little chicane. Even if they are going at a sensible speed, it's still disconcerting to have them essentially drive right at you.

You can do your best to manage the gap, easing off so that the inevitable cut in doesn't involve you... but it's nasty if there is a flow of heavy traffic coming through.

I'd ignore the cycle-lane entirely there and be a metre and a half out from a fair way back.

HTFB · « **Reply #115 on:** 25 January, 2016, 09:29:31 pm »

Quote from: jsabine on 25 January, 2016, 09:13:51 pm

I've had that a good bit: I don't mind it too much, as long as visibility's good enough that it's obvious there's no-one coming the other way.

At least it proves they've seen you ...

It's not just (as I explained to my grandmother during an ovivacuation tutorial) the view of the stuff coming the other way, it's also the pavements on both sides that may contain pedestrians / pavement-cyclists / small children on scooters / etc., none of whom are expecting something driving at them in the wrong direction at an island crossing as they step / whiz out.

But a nice solid traffic island between you and the closest approach of an idiot is definitely a result.

jsabine · « **Reply #116 on:** 25 January, 2016, 09:37:26 pm »

Quote from: HTFB on 25 January, 2016, 09:29:31 pm

Quote from: jsabine on 25 January, 2016, 09:13:51 pm
I've had that a good bit: I don't mind it too much, as long as visibility's good enough that it's obvious there's no-one coming the other way.

At least it proves they've seen you ...
It's not just (as I explained to my grandmother during an ovivacuation tutorial) the view of the stuff coming the other way, it's also the pavements on both sides that may contain pedestrians / pavement-cyclists / small children on scooters / etc., none of whom are expecting something driving at them in the wrong direction at an island crossing as they step / whiz out.

Agreed. I was being lazy (and inaccurate, and vehicle-centric) in using 'someone coming the other way' as a shorthand for 'anyone with whom this unexpected vehicle movement might come into conflict,' but IME car drivers tend to only wrong-side at traffic islands when there's no-one else about except the cyclist they're overtaking. Motorcyclists*, OTOH, will happily use it as a means of overtaking an traffic queue ... complete with busy pavements on both sides and poor visibility through the queuing vehicles ...

Quote

But a nice solid traffic island between you and the closest approach of an idiot is definitely a result.

Aye, no doubt about that.

* OK, OK, some motorcyclists. And moped riders. And scooterists.

andyoxon · « **Reply #117 on:** 16 February, 2016, 09:24:05 pm »

The 'cycling lane' design of traffic calming has to be one of the worst...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.719892,-1.2258323,3a,75y,210.97h,81.85t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sGLRLhM1EygJ9-zr64cDf6A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

I indicated to go through the main 'car' route, and a BMW driver behind hooted/took exception. Clearly she though I'd be taking the handy bike gutter path. There were also cars waiting on the other side (we had priority), so the danger was that if I taken the inside route, we may have 'met' on the other side of the island...

matthew · « **Reply #118 on:** 17 February, 2016, 10:02:07 am »

Last night I had a driver bail out to the wrong side of the island when they realised they weren't getting past before the restriction.

Here

This avoided the width restriction for them and they cut back across to the correct side of the road before the width restriction for oncoming traffic.

TigaSefi · « **Reply #119 on:** 23 February, 2016, 02:45:32 pm »

Look in today's Motorised moron thread for a new one! Clearly a choice of ramming the traffic island or the cyclists. Guess what the driver chose!

Pancho · « **Reply #120 on:** 23 February, 2016, 03:53:51 pm »

Which is why I make sure I've totally got the lane a long way in advance of islands. Kiboshes most ambitious overtakes and gives me plenty of room to play with in the case of the totally brain dead.

Kim · « **Reply #121 on:** 23 February, 2016, 09:29:56 pm »

Quote from: Pancho on 23 February, 2016, 03:53:51 pm

Which is why I make sure I've totally got the lane a long way in advance of islands. Kiboshes most ambitious overtakes and gives me plenty of room to play with in the case of the totally brain dead.

Doesn't half enrage the idiots, thobut

Pancho · « **Reply #122 on:** 23 February, 2016, 09:48:25 pm »

True. But if an idiot is enraged by me, it means she's seen me. Their revs and toots are reassurance that I've been seen. There are very few people who are actually willing and able to commit murder but an awful lot who'll chance killing you if squeezing by will save two seconds on their drive to the rest of the next traffic jam.

hellymedic · « **Reply #123 on:** 24 February, 2016, 01:11:05 pm »

Quote from: Pancho on 23 February, 2016, 09:48:25 pm

True. But if an idiot is enraged by me, it means she's seen me. Their revs and toots are reassurance that I've been seen. There are very few people who are actually willing and able to commit murder but an awful lot who'll chance killing you if squeezing by will save two seconds on their drive to the rest of the next traffic jam.

Unfortunately there do seem to be quite a few instances of cyclists being deliberately hit or 'tapped' from behind with serious consequences.

Justice is not always served when this occurs.

Kim · « **Reply #124 on:** 24 February, 2016, 01:29:33 pm »

And even when they're not, it's effective at discouraging cyclists from being assertive.