Peds walking out in front of you

[woollypigs]

Floating bus stop, eh?  FOREIGN?

(Sinks the Bismarck)

Funny that, this works ik Denmark where peds knows that they need to look before they step out into a cycle lane or road.

[Kim]

I'm sure floating bus stops would work fine with British pedestrians if the cycle lane looks sufficiently road-like.  That may require it to be at least 5m wide, with regular motor traffic.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Floating bus stop, eh?  FOREIGN?

(Sinks the Bismarck)

They're crying out now for some torpedo graffiti. 

[Cudzoziemiec]

A pedestrian walked out in front of me today. She was on a pelican* at a crossroads, I had a green light. She walked out when I was already beyond the middle of the junction, not dangerously close but closer than is wise. I think she was totally oblivious of my presence. Bereft of Airzound, I said 'Ting-a-ling' which at least makes me smile, in some silly way.

Similar happened on Sunday, except that time it was a quiet road — possibly a cycle contraflow — in Stratford. And on Monday two blokes started walking across my path as I was winding my way up my hill — one at the bottom, the other at the top — but both stopped when they saw that, laden as I was with four panniers, I wasn't giving up my momentum to anyone without either a flashing blue light or some cake.

I think a large part in this phenomenon is that people cross with their ears, though the current cluster suggests the weather may play a role.

*Google is not playing today, so draw it yourself.

[Biggsy]

I think a large part in this phenomenon is that people cross with their ears

This is certainly true on quiet roads.  The residential roads I frequent always have people crossing without looking.  It doesn't much bother me any more, I'm ready to dodge them.

[Mr Larrington]

Iused the underpass near Sainsbury's this arvo, as it was rush hour and the roundabout above it fills with idiots at this time of day. The cycle path is separated from the footpath by a handy kerb to raise the latter.

Ped walking down the middle of the cycle path txtng?  Check.  And for balance:

Hi-viz martlehatted cyclist on a fair-to-middling Perfectly Good Gentleman's Mountain Bicycle, on the footpath?  Check.

[Diver300]

I think a large part in this phenomenon is that people cross with their ears, though the current cluster suggests the weather may play a role.

Many years ago, on King's Parade in Cambridge, I had a pedestrian cross sort of diagonally, so I was travelling at walking pace behind her.

I put it down to the relative silence of the straight six engine in the car I was driving.

I assume that the Teslas and Nissan Leafs are seeing this problem.

[Mr Larrington]

I think a large part in this phenomenon is that people cross with their ears, though the current cluster suggests the weather may play a role.

Many years ago, on King's Parade in Cambridge, I had a pedestrian cross sort of diagonally, so I was travelling at walking pace behind her.

I put it down to the relative silence of the straight six engine in the car I was driving.

I assume that the Teslas and Nissan Leafs are seeing this problem.

I had a similar incident on US-12 in rural Idaho in a car with a trick exhaust that made a noise like the BBMF above 3000 rpm, so I'm not sure about this Stuffs

[perpetual dan]

I'm sure floating bus stops would work fine with British pedestrians if the cycle lane looks sufficiently road-like.  That may require it to be at least 5m wide, with regular motor traffic.

The ones in Brighton have a kerb to step down from the bus stop and are becoming quite widely used, particularly on routes with heavy cycle traffic (that'd be the flat roads). I don't cycle into the city much these days, but from what I've seen they work better than I expected.

[Cudzoziemiec]

I think a large part in this phenomenon is that people cross with their ears, though the current cluster suggests the weather may play a role.

Many years ago, on King's Parade in Cambridge, I had a pedestrian cross sort of diagonally, so I was travelling at walking pace behind her.

I put it down to the relative silence of the straight six engine in the car I was driving.

I assume that the Teslas and Nissan Leafs are seeing this problem.

ISTHH that as from <near future date - this year?> all leccy cars (in EU at least — and that means it will become default for a lot of  the rest of the world too) will have to artificially generate some sort of noise because of this.

So we balls up the chance of reducing noise pollution.

[Biggsy]

I can hear the tyre noise from even a slow moving car on a quiet road.  15mph+ anyway.

[Kim]

IIRC the Leaf's gentle wooshing noise generator only works below 20mph (unless you turn it off).  On the two occasions a known electric car has passed me at speed on a quiet road, the sound has been little different to that of a modern ICE car in a cruising gear (that is, almost entirely tyre noise).

So it seems that Nissan have got it pretty much right, other than the whole arms race aspect.

What the wooshing noise generator doesn't do is make a sound when the car is idle.  Which is equivalent to an ICE car that automatically stops the engine.  Which I'm sure is also confusing to visually impaired road-crossers.

[Cudzoziemiec]

AIUI under new regs you won't have the option to turn it off. Don't know if it mandates a particular level of noise or is in any way connected to speed.

[Wascally Weasel]

During years of walking from station to work in London and back, along which route there are numerous cyclists, I have never seen a cyclist hit by a car, but on several occasions, collisions with unthinking pedestrians.  It would appear that cyclists are more at risk from peds than from cars, albeit the consequences of collision may be less catastrophic for the cyclist.

I'm reasonably sure that cyclists are at more risk of an off from non-motor-vehicle causes - poor surfaces (including ice, diesel, gravel, chutney etc), wildlife (including lemming pedestrians and insect attacks), mechanical failure, their own incompetence and so on, but the consequences are usually less severe.

My own collection of scars would certainly support this theory.

My worst crash would support your theory (a mixture of bad luck, road camber, weather and not enough competence at high speeds; no-one else involved).

[martint235]

Advice I was given is: anticipate pedestrians in London will walk out without looking, moderate your speed, ride wide (i.e. give yourself space from things and people), and ALWAYS have your fingers resting on your brake levers.

It's worked for me so far.

Ah but sometimes there's no accounting for lemmings. I once had one run from the right hand side of the road to get under my wheel. I was to the right of a stationary line of traffic, saw her, assumed she wouldn't try to cross a lane of moving traffic and so concentrated on the greater risk (in my mind) of cars deciding to u-turn, peds coming through gaps in the stationary traffic etc. Next thing I knew she was right in front of me with nowhere for me to go. Picked myself up, picked her up, checked she was ok and then walked her the 50 yards or so to her house and called her friend for her. A few people asked if we were ok which was nice but no one else was prepared to walk her to her house

Apparently, despite the fact I'm not the smallest person in the world, she had only seen the bus further down the traffic queue behind me and not registered me at all.

What was worse for me is that it was only a week after cracking a couple of ribs on the famous Emsworth FNRttC and my doc had told me not to cycle. As I picked myself up and felt some new pains all I could do was run through a conversation in my head that started "Doc I know you told me not to cycle but......"

[LEE]

Without having any accurate figures I'd say that about 1/3 of all pedestrians start to take an initial step off the kerb before looking if anything is coming.

The increase in Electric vehicles should hopefully provide some form of Darwinian-related decrease in such behaviour.

[orienteer]

Over 50 years ago we had trolleybuses, I don't recall people stepping out in front of them particularly.

[graculus]

It would tend to be a once in a lifetime experience....

[caerau]

I think a large part in this phenomenon is that people cross with their ears, though the current cluster suggests the weather may play a role.

Many years ago, on King's Parade in Cambridge, I had a pedestrian cross sort of diagonally, so I was travelling at walking pace behind her.

I put it down to the relative silence of the straight six engine in the car I was driving.

I assume that the Teslas and Nissan Leafs are seeing this problem.

ISTHH that as from <near future date - this year?> all leccy cars (in EU at least — and that means it will become default for a lot of  the rest of the world too) will have to artificially generate some sort of noise because of this.

So we balls up the chance of reducing noise pollution.

In my experience the number of pedestrians who use sound as their only sense before crossing the road is frightening (not even a slight glance at the road before they launch across) - I favour nice clicky freehubs for that reason - I get quite a few comments about my noisy freehub from fellow cyclists on audax rides but  if saves me a crash with a lemming it's something I'm quite happy to put up with.  It's a bit annoying when approaching horses though as you need to pedal to be quiet which doesn't really help being slow also.

[barakta]

I boggle at the number of deaf/HOH people who claim they can't cross roads safely.... I prefer to travel hearing aid out when walking in public. I'm generally safer not having partial distorted nonsensical sound than I am having nothing, I use my EYES, they're dead good are eyes, even mine with their dodgy visual processing of moving objects!

[resus1uk]

Even in cycling utopia of Holland bikes & pedestrians frequently clash. Less likely with cars & bikes as they are more separated.
On holiday yesterday I parked my Brompton in a shoping centre in the suburbs of Veenendaal. Then walked to the ATM as a group of teenagers, six abreast, eating a pack of fresh donuts between  them, rode  into the crowd taking out another cyclist,  & pushed me into the wall of Rabobank.
Cycling without due care & attention.
Despite the cycling credentials of the bank there was a lot of shouting from the staff.
At first I heard my self saying sorry, then I started shouting  loud Anglo Saxon epithets as I picked myself up off the floor.
The group escaped by riding up onto the station platform.
Strangely no-one seemed bothered, even the Dutch lady cyclist who was toppled by the group.

[Pete Owens]

When I was learning to drive in Germany we were warned that "if a dead drunk pedestrian dressed head to foot in black staggers out backwards from between two parked vans on an unlit street and you hit him, you're responsible". 'Tis graven on me 'eart.

Which is exactly how it should be - and why we need to introduce presumed liablity into the UK. This means it is the responsiblitiy of the driver (or in this case cyclist) to ensure they operate their vehicle safely and can stop within the distance they can see to be clear and not blindly expect everybody else to keep out of their way.

Pedestrians move slowly - and if one appears to materialise suddenly in your path then then that is entirely due to you attempting to ride too fast and too close to them. We rightly expect drivers to overtake us with care and leave us sufficient space to swerve to avoid unexpected objects or to fall off - we need to excercise the same care when we are passing more vulnerable users than ourselves.

 

[bikesdontfloat]

Pedestrians move slowly - and if one appears to materialise suddenly in your path then then that is entirely due to you attempting to ride too fast and too close to them. We rightly expect drivers to overtake us with care and leave us sufficient space to swerve to avoid unexpected objects or to fall off - we need to excercise the same care when we are passing more vulnerable users than ourselves.

Unfortunately this isn't always the case.  Having been in a car when a small child sprinted out from between two parked cars it was horrifying just how suddenly he appeared.  The solid line of parked cars and his lack of height meant we had no idea there were any kids playing on the pavement.  Because it was a narrow residential road with lots of parked cars mercifully we were only doing about 20mph, despite the 30mph limit, so we managed to screech to a stop just in time.

My friend who was driving had to pull over and take 10 minutes to pull himself together because of how close a shave it had been.

Admittedly this was partly bad luck.  If we had set out 10 seconds later then the child running out would have been sufficiently far in front of us that we could have stopped without worry.  But by the same token, if we had set off a second earlier then I don't think we could have avoided hitting him.

[Jaded]

Not sure I agree with that. If you cannot see if there is a kid about to run out that does not mean that there isn't.

Maybe if a kid jumped out of a first floor window into your path, but not appearing from a pavement on a residential road.

[tonycollinet]

If you can't see something is not there/jumping out - assume it is. Drive/cycle accordingly.

Its not rocket science.