Actual Riding Time + Sleep + Faffing Time = Finish Time

[DCLane]

I can't remember who wrote the spreadsheet, but if you read this - remind me that I owe you a very large beer.

If it was mine.... it didn't work for me!

Yep! So if we meet at LEL / another audax the beer is on me 

[madcow]

I just didn't sleep until Brest (1.5 hours ) and Tintineac (2 hours) . I should have stopped at Dreux for a sleep as well , because as you say sleep dep does slow you down. It's not just a slower speed on the bike but a loss of time as you climb off, sit down , cat nap , get back on etc , repeated 2 or 3 times over a stage.
I don't sleep well but I also have a fear of falling into a deep sleep and running out of time. Work that one out.
Apart from sleep stops , I didn't spend more than 1 hour in any control , but stopped at a few cafes along the way.
I would guess at 61 hours riding and 20 hours off the bike.

[L CC]

What I think this fails to recognise is that those of us who spend much longer in controls and sleeping gain some recovery benefit during this time, which enables us to ride more quickly on the next stages. I reckon most of us would slow down a lot if we tried to emulate zigzag's approach.

I think that is true.
Another way of looking at it (if you are trying to minimise overall time) would be to say that if you eased off your effort only very slightly, how much less control 'rest' would you be able to manage with?

I'm not sure it works like that- when you ease off you tend to 'sit' on the bike, which makes some aspects of it harder (more sore).
Reducing recovery time for a specific rate of exertion is one of the benefits of improved fitness- we were not faster in 2013 but we recovered between rides much faster than we have done before or since. I reckon the within ride recovery improves too when you get to zigzag/ veloboy/ sloth levels of fitness.

[Aunt Maud]

I saw loads of walking dead when I got to Fougères both times, they were either sitting on chairs and staring into space, walking in circles or having heart attacks.

They would have been better off having a lie down and a good sleep, than just sitting there wasting time.

[Pip]

I rode with two mates from Muswell Hill Peloton who I badgered into doing this, and brilliant company they were too.

Time on bike 51:47 including an extra 8 kms for fun. Strava shows 35:09 off the bike. Solid 15 hours sleep over 3 nights

[wilkyboy]

I haven't worked out my numbers yet, because my GPS track is incomplete, spread over two devices, and I'll have to fill in some bits from memory and chip tracking.

Or Wilkyboy doing the numbers and talking about how he had no time for sleep - LWaB pretty much telling him to shut up talking about having no time for sleep and to grab a quick nap! 

The problem I think was the sleep-dep was making me misidentify the problem and the solution.  When told to sleep, I slept and I felt MUCH better afterwards, even after just 40 minutes in a bed.  I tended not to rush through any of the controls anyway, as I enjoyed the atmosphere and liked being off the bike for a bit.

TBH I took a lightweight sleep kit with me, so I didn't have to rely on the dorms and it was perfect.  I probably didn't need the bivvy bag, as I just used it to lie on to keep the kit clean, but the mat and pillow were a godsend.  I only slept once outside a control — young Tom from AC Bristol found an amazing piece of shady ground just after Quédillac on the way out and we got 40 winks, with the owner watching over us, honoured we'd picked his gateway to sleep in 

What I think this fails to recognise is that those of us who spend much longer in controls and sleeping gain some recovery benefit during this time, which enables us to ride more quickly on the next stages. I reckon most of us would slow down a lot if we tried to emulate zigzag's approach.

In hindsight, after a leisurely control I felt MUCH better and was much quicker on the road, at least for a while.  I slept in a bed at Fougères after being told to by Marcus and LWaB.  I slept in a corner on the floor at Mortagne — after the 100+m climb my whole body was humming and kicking out heat — I cursed the hill on the way up, but deep down I really enjoyed the climb.  I slept at breakfast at Dreux, but then we had to endure the rain.  I must've slept for a while in the corridor at Tinténiac as well.  Not only did I feel less sleepy afterwards, but the resting period gave me back some legs, for a while.

This was only my second 1000+ ride, although i've ridden plenty of 600s.  I learnt more about myself and how my body behaves under stress and that's all good and will be useful on the next 1000+ 

I loved this album on Facebook (sorry!) - https://www.facebook.com/panagiotis.bourikas/media_set?set=a.10205775370716042&type=3&pnref=story

Cracking!  That's all so audax! 

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

Interesting that with a wide range of total times, the actual riding time is in a fairly narrow band for most: between 45 and 60 hours. Full value riders [me, this time] were either pretty fresh, from plenty of sleep and food [moi] or wrecked [worryingly, most other riders on the road with me for the last few stages]

I think that is it, as everyone says, a fast PBP is about the controls more than being super fast on the road. 

Someone like zigzag is fast on the road, without doubt, but is 'only' putting 5-10 hours into a typical rider on his moving time.  (Not meaning to sound dismissive with that 'only' - your speed on the road is amazing, but it gains you less time than your incredible stopped time!).

However, his stopped time is phenomenal and he is putting 20 hours or more into most of us there.

My average riding speed was 15.6mph so 49hr 21min moving, 21hr 19min stopped, of which 9 hours was sleep.  But there were some noticeably slow sections (Fougeres to Loudeac outbound Monday morning) and Fougeres - Villaines (return) where I was suffering from sleep deprivation / tiredness.  My speed from Brest to Loudeac was high despite the hills, because I had come off the back of a long sleep in Brest.  I was quick back from Fougeres to Paris, apart from a section of dozies before Mortagne, again off the back of a decent sleep.  That mirrors my experience on Kernow and SW where, after a good sleep I was able to ride the second day at much the same speed as the first whereas if I'd ridden through I would have been a much slower zombie-like rider.

IMHO Zigzag's biggest achievement is not to lose much speed when tired....

[Frank9755]

I'm not sure it works like that- when you ease off you tend to 'sit' on the bike, which makes some aspects of it harder (more sore).
Reducing recovery time for a specific rate of exertion is one of the benefits of improved fitness- we were not faster in 2013 but we recovered between rides much faster than we have done before or since. I reckon the within ride recovery improves too when you get to zigzag/ veloboy/ sloth levels of fitness.

That's not what I mean by 'ease off'  I mean reduce your power output by a few % to a level that you can sustain for a far longer period. 

The trick is to get to know the shape of your own trade-off between intensity and the time you are able to sustain it for.  eg I know what power I can ride at all day in say a 12 hour TT, and if I go off faster than that, it's not going to work.

The impressive thing, when looking at how someone like Zigzag has performed, is not just the speed that he has gone at, but the length of time he has sustained it for.  (Drafting apart) I expect he could have got to Brest even faster if he was planning to give himself a four-hour break once he got there.

[Karla]

Playing Ingress.

You've now linked Paris and Brest to create a massive Enlightenment stronghold across the whole of northern France?

[wilkyboy]

I've run some numbers and filled in the gaps and I reckon I was moving for 64 hours on a total time of 89:04, so stopped for 25 hours.  That gives me an average moving speed of 19.25kph — and I'm a bit disappointed, because on LEL I managed an average moving 2kph faster than that.

As to the 25 hours, well, every control was a time-suck.  If I remove a decent amount for sleep then it's not far off an hour per control.  My "metric plan" had always been calculated on the basis of 20kph between controls and an hour per control, on the basis I would be quicker (!) on the road and spend less than an hour in each control, giving me plenty of time to sleep.  It didn't quite come off, c'est la vie, I suppose, but we got there in the end.

[simonp]

LEL was about 2kph faster on the road in 2013 for me as well.

LEL is harder, right?

[Chris S]

Playing Ingress.

You've now linked Paris and Brest to create a massive Enlightenment stronghold across the whole of northern France?

OK ?

fboab submitted a PBP mission which we were intending to do - but it wasn't accepted in time .

[zigzag]

I'm not sure it works like that- when you ease off you tend to 'sit' on the bike, which makes some aspects of it harder (more sore).
Reducing recovery time for a specific rate of exertion is one of the benefits of improved fitness- we were not faster in 2013 but we recovered between rides much faster than we have done before or since. I reckon the within ride recovery improves too when you get to zigzag/ veloboy/ sloth levels of fitness.

That's not what I mean by 'ease off'  I mean reduce your power output by a few % to a level that you can sustain for a far longer period. 

The trick is to get to know the shape of your own trade-off between intensity and the time you are able to sustain it for.  eg I know what power I can ride at all day in say a 12 hour TT, and if I go off faster than that, it's not going to work.

The impressive thing, when looking at how someone like Zigzag has performed, is not just the speed that he has gone at, but the length of time he has sustained it for.  (Drafting apart) I expect he could have got to Brest even faster if he was planning to give himself a four-hour break once he got there.

i must add that i was very close to my limit while riding - it took lots of determination to push through difficult moments. i haven't dug that deep since lel in 2009 when i was arriving at closing controls. we could have used the time more efficiently at controls, but to gain more speed - not so easy! one of the obvious ways would be to form a disciplined chaingang from riders of similar abilities and keep rotating all the time. however if entering this race* as a solo rider you have to adjust your riding style and strategy as you go along.

*among vedettes (at least the front waves) pbp is a race and i haven't heard it being called anything else

[Somnolent]

LEL was about 2kph faster on the road in 2013 for me as well.

Reverse for me.

[mattc]

LEL was about 2kph faster on the road in 2013 for me as well.

Reverse for me.

Stalemate!

("Two men say they're jesus - ONE of them must be wrong." )

[wilkyboy]

LEL was about 2kph faster on the road in 2013 for me as well.

Reverse for me.

Stalemate!

("Two men say they're jesus - ONE of them must be wrong." )

Yarr but Mrs Somnolent confided before the start that she was worried he'd lost so much weight he'd actually beat her up the hills for once ... methinks therein lies the speed ...

[ruffstuff]

Dear All ,
I have to say that was interesting to see all the different amounts of time takern ... Faster riders took less time at the check points and less sleep . If I could have done the same as MR Orange and Zig Zag then I'd done 62 hours!!!  or what would have MIKe Broadwith National 24 hour Champ done?? 537miles or 859Km in 24Hours.... With Help what could he do?

But you have to take all the riders that finished within their time limits! and the unfortunate few that didnt!

Chapeau!

[Somnolent]

Yarr but Mrs Somnolent confided before the start that she was worried he'd lost so much weight he'd actually beat her up the hills for once ...

Never going to happen, but at least I can now (mostly) keep her in sight on the shallower gradients.

[trickedem]

Moving time 58:09, elapsed time 87:26

Considering I couldn't eat at most of the controls and reckon I had about 10 hours sleep, I have no idea where the time went. But I felt better as the ride went on and finished feeling great, so I think I got it about right for me.

[igauk]

Having pieced together the gaps where RWGPS wasn't playing nicely it looks like 59.50 on the bike and 23.43 off it, about 8 hours of that sleeping. Which leaves an inordinate amount of time buggering about, although it didn't feel like it at the time.

[Nelson Longflap]

Which leaves an inordinate amount of time buggering about, although it didn't feel like it at the time.

Yep ... still don't really understand it! Already posted my numbers at
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=92652.100
 ... remarkably similar to several others here.

[3peaker]

It was soooo easy to lose time at Controls... and some of those roadside tables (great local support though). My gps gives me a ride ave of ~21.5kph, so riding for 57hrs. That's 33 hrs for the rest; 1 1/4 to P*****s. 15 Controls some an hour; Brest just wandered around and an hr passed with NO food taken. Bounced Carhaix outbound as Qs just impossibly long. Time management is certainly an important factor. Most of my sleep was catnaps when I felt the need and especially a 40min when the 'sleep police' caught me wandering before the Tinteniac return. They took my Number (but not my Brevet!). My 37min within time more comfortable than 11min in 2011 but anxious as 33mins lost to P* after Dreux.

[davego]

The roads were so much better than the UK . In the towns they could be a little rough where they had presumably been dug up for services , but out of the towns they were generally very good. I dont think you would risk full spped descents in the dark in the UK even with good lights , you would miss a pot hole and at the least wreck a wheel.

I in my SR series covered most of the country north of Leicester upto the scottish borders and Central and Mid wales. I would say South Cheshire had the worst roads followed by SHropshire

[fussballclub]

Was surprised to see the amount of stationary time on my ride. It felt like it was much less esp with only 2hrs sleep in Brest and another two in Tinténiac, just shows how time flies when you're having fun!

Total: 73hr 47min
Ride time: 50hr 13min
Stationary: 23hr 34min!

http://immertreter.de/?p=149

Thank you for that.

[Dom T]

Was surprised to see the amount of stationary time on my ride. It felt like it was much less esp with only 2hrs sleep in Brest and another two in Tinténiac, just shows how time flies when you're having fun!

Total: 73hr 47min
Ride time: 50hr 13min
Stationary: 23hr 34min!

http://immertreter.de/?p=149

Thank you for that.

Good post Fussballclub!... Hope the achellies/knee heals soon. Another day and I probably would have experienced the same. I was more conservative on PBP than LEL. I really didn't want to experience crepitus again!