Author Topic: Base training  (Read 165223 times)

Re: Base training
« Reply #1950 on: July 09, 2020, 10:26:41 pm »
Using the turbo outside I thought would be refreshing but I have been over heating even in the current tepid conditions with quite a lot of cardiac drift.   There is an outside plug socket for the mower so I could run my fan from there.  It seems a bit excessive, though.

I've always used a fan outside, even in coolish conditions.  It's the rapid movement of air over the skin that's needed to stop the sweat becoming an issue.  When the Cleva arrives (tomorrow - damn that was quick!) I'll be using a 2-fan system inside and out, fan and blower, and I'm not even a particularly heavy sweater.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1951 on: July 10, 2020, 08:32:55 am »
Using the turbo outside I thought would be refreshing but I have been over heating even in the current tepid conditions with quite a lot of cardiac drift.   There is an outside plug socket for the mower so I could run my fan from there.  It seems a bit excessive, though.

Probably feels like doing a long, steep climb - working hard but with no air movement.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1952 on: July 11, 2020, 01:29:48 pm »
The fan the TR people recommend is not available in the UK, but this is a close approximation:
https://www.cleva-uk.com/products/vacmaster-air-mover

Much cheaper than a headwind, though you'll have to control it manually. There's also a discount code TRAINERROAD10 which gets you 10% off, such was the demand from the UK based TR peeps! ;) giant thread here: https://www.trainerroad.com/forum/t/uk-users-looking-for-a-lasko-fan-check-this-out-thanks-to-hugo1/9554
Arrived this morning.  No time for a long bike session so some Pilates and then weights.  This thing is so much better than a traditional fan.

Thank you

Re: Base training
« Reply #1953 on: July 11, 2020, 08:51:00 pm »
I use turbo on patio, no fan. I have to do it in the morning before the sun moves round. Recumbent ftp now matched last years peak road bike ftp. So far, so good. Trick now it not to let it all fall away over autumn and then have to start building again as I seem to do each year.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Base training
« Reply #1954 on: July 14, 2020, 07:52:18 pm »
i did a ramp test today and was quite happy with the result. low expectations were due to (almost) no structured training this year, overheating and cba attitude (gave up at 179bpm). still managed to get the same 270w as i did in december.

i'll be doing three weeks of short power build now, for variety.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1955 on: July 16, 2020, 04:52:58 pm »
just had a wee go at that Alpe Du Zwift for the first time. Its probably not the smartest thing to do in the middle of the Build Me Up Programme but its a relatively light week and I was super curious.
A question.  Im using a shared bike on the trainer and its just fine. A little clunky and the frame is too small really so not the same fit as my road bikes. Im a bit crowded on it TBH.  If I was to go to the faff of installing my road bike on the trainer would I likely see any perceivable power advantages? 
Im thinking not as you just sit there on a trainer and bash away with no concerns for wind/aero etc.

Plus one for installing a fan too.  We hadn't bothered until last week just using air-conditioning and thinking that was more than enough (Bermuda in July, air con is essential) I added a fan last week as well as the  air con on and the difference was incredible. Just a puddle of sweat on the floor now, not a swimming pool.
often lost.

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Base training
« Reply #1956 on: July 16, 2020, 05:39:08 pm »
Do you stand / sprint on the trainer?

(Also - top tip - do your workouts up the Alpe. All that climbing gets you closer to the Tron bike  ;) )

We used to share a bike on the trainer when we had the dumb trainer, and kept it with the wheel-on trainer. The gains I've had since having my own trainer are more to do with time and work than using a better-fitting bike.
Does it matter if you throw down more watts on the trainer? It's not going to be a less-effective training tool because it doesn't fit you well. If you're training for anything other than Zwift racing I wouldn't bother unless a) you want to or b) the shared bike becomes uncomfortable.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

Re: Base training
« Reply #1957 on: July 16, 2020, 06:04:36 pm »
Do you stand / sprint on the trainer?

(Also - top tip - do your workouts up the Alpe. All that climbing gets you closer to the Tron bike  ;) )

We used to share a bike on the trainer when we had the dumb trainer, and kept it with the wheel-on trainer. The gains I've had since having my own trainer are more to do with time and work than using a better-fitting bike.
Does it matter if you throw down more watts on the trainer? It's not going to be a less-effective training tool because it doesn't fit you well. If you're training for anything other than Zwift racing I wouldn't bother unless a) you want to or b) the shared bike becomes uncomfortable.

 Hi, I do stand when instructed to on the training programme we are doing. Its a bit awkward on the smaller frame but doable.
I guess the bottom line is we are doing the programme to improve our FTP and I that FTP number will hopefully go up regardless while on the same bike if we get fitter. I'd just like to know if that the small bike could be losing me some watts and my real world FTP could be higher.  Its probably just wishful thinking!
I guess the way to find out will be stick with the shared bike through the BMU programme over the next month, take the FTP at the end, then after a couple of days rest install the road bike on and do it again.  It means switching out cassettes etc and Im not too happy about my nice shiny firefly strapped on to the turbo.
often lost.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Base training
« Reply #1958 on: July 16, 2020, 06:19:46 pm »
the fit makes a difference if it is very different (eg. road vs tt position), it will not matter much if the bike is a bit small or large.

get another trainer and train together on properly fitting bikes?


p.s. there might be a gap in the market for a "turbo-bike", a simple sturdy frameset with easily adjustable saddle and handlebar positions, similar to spin bikes.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1959 on: July 16, 2020, 09:28:05 pm »
the fit makes a difference if it is very different (eg. road vs tt position), it will not matter much if the bike is a bit small or large.

get another trainer and train together on properly fitting bikes?


p.s. there might be a gap in the market for a "turbo-bike", a simple sturdy frameset with easily adjustable saddle and handlebar positions, similar to spin bikes.

Yeah that what I suspected.  I'll stick with the set up as is. A quick swap out of seatpost/saddle and pedals is easy and off you go.
 There is a 5 inch height difference between us but with slamming my saddle right back and the post raised way up its not too bad. Ideally I'd have the saddle back further but can still tap out a rhythm with my arse hanging off the back.
I don't really want to goto that extra expense of two turbos TBH zigzag.
Plus we have the set up tucked away in a nice cozy corner. No room for two setups.
Absolutely on the turbo bike. It would be so much simpler.  Like one of those contraptions they use  when you go for a bike fit.
often lost.

rob

Re: Base training
« Reply #1960 on: July 16, 2020, 11:14:30 pm »
Using the turbo outside I thought would be refreshing but I have been over heating even in the current tepid conditions with quite a lot of cardiac drift.   There is an outside plug socket for the mower so I could run my fan from there.  It seems a bit excessive, though.

Probably feels like doing a long, steep climb - working hard but with no air movement.

Definitely need the fan.  Properly cooked myself this morning. 

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #1961 on: July 16, 2020, 11:15:32 pm »
I was pretty cooked this evening with a fan.

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Base training
« Reply #1962 on: July 17, 2020, 09:34:20 am »

There is a 5 inch height difference between us but with slamming my saddle right back and the post raised way up its not too bad. Ideally I'd have the saddle back further but can still tap out a rhythm with my arse hanging off the back.
5" height different is nothing! I shared the trainer bike with Mr Smith and he's 8 inches taller than me :)
I'd never have been able to ride it outside- I almost needed a stool to get on it :D

I have a 3 day stage race next weekend. If it doesn't get cooler I might have to use setting 3 on the Vacmaster (thanks for the tip, DuncanM)

Turbo bikes exist. Isn't that the gap these fill?
For us, we ride together inside quite often. Who gets priority if you only have one bike/ trainer?
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Base training
« Reply #1963 on: July 17, 2020, 01:45:03 pm »

Turbo bikes exist. Isn't that the gap these fill?
For us, we ride together inside quite often. Who gets priority if you only have one bike/ trainer?

yes, these do exist, but they cost a fair bit especially if you already have a smart trainer and want to continue using it.

my idea was that a "turbo-bike" should be similar to regular bikes, hook up to any smart or dumb trainer (wheel on or direct drive), but have all the adjustability of spin bikes to cater wide range of people from short to tall, if that makes sense.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1964 on: July 20, 2020, 10:14:46 pm »
Power is position specific so you would get more benefit by training in the position in which you intend to race.

How much better is the question! It could be a reasonable amount or it could be close to zero. And if you don't intend to race, it's pretty academic.

I have to say I do try to replicate my racing bike position on a turbo as I don't like to think of any of my effort being wasted.

rob

Re: Base training
« Reply #1965 on: September 08, 2020, 10:36:36 am »
Training went to shit early August.  Every goal event for the year disappeared for a variety of reasons.

In terms of road miles I’m actually up on last year which was a record year for me.  I should hopefully complete an SR by the end of the month.

I’m currently scheduled to restart coaching early Nov, but I need to decide if I’m still a racing cyclist or not.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1966 on: September 08, 2020, 06:07:23 pm »
Power is position specific so you would get more benefit by training in the position in which you intend to race.

How much better is the question! It could be a reasonable amount or it could be close to zero. And if you don't intend to race, it's pretty academic.

I have to say I do try to replicate my racing bike position on a turbo as I don't like to think of any of my effort being wasted.

My concern with a position different to your normal one would be injury. Some people are more sensitive than others, but knees are especially at risk from differences in saddle position, and also ( often overlooked) the width of stance of the pedals.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1967 on: September 08, 2020, 06:51:25 pm »
Bit like Rob, training on hold August and just been out enjoying the riding. Attempting a late SR then I’ll kick start training again come November. Been doing a bit of high intensity on hills but no too much.

zigzag

  • unfuckwithable
Re: Base training
« Reply #1968 on: September 08, 2020, 09:34:46 pm »
considering low motivation and not much training this year i'm in pretty good shape right now. the last ftp test (last week) suggested 290w, and i am aiming to run a sub-19min 5k soon.
if the weather is favourable i might squeeze in the sr series at the end of september.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1969 on: September 11, 2020, 12:09:05 pm »
Yup Ive really lost the will to ride long after all our European adventures were cancelled. I haven't been able to face the merry go round of big rides on a small Island in 95% humidity.
Its been a few ramp tests and inside stuff on an ill fitting turbo this year.
Sooner or later Im going to have to suck it up and bash out a few 300's. Maybe tomorrow or the day after, of sometime after that...
often lost.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #1970 on: September 11, 2020, 04:21:03 pm »
Currently hitting 3 year PBs on the trainer.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1971 on: September 11, 2020, 04:38:54 pm »
Not been on the bike since May. Hip not changed, so dunno when I will. FTP was 233 in mid-May, wonder what it is now.

simonp

Re: Base training
« Reply #1972 on: September 11, 2020, 05:11:59 pm »
Not been on the bike since May. Hip not changed, so dunno when I will. FTP was 233 in mid-May, wonder what it is now.

That's a bummer. I tested 219W on 31 Mar, most recent test was 243W, I'm hoping to get above 250W at next test.

Re: Base training
« Reply #1973 on: October 01, 2020, 04:32:45 pm »
Right I’m starting next week with this winter training job , kept up a few long rides this year up to 400k but as the 24 was cancelled and I’ve been working right though I have been severely lacking in mojo.
I normally manage TrainerRoad sweet spot low volume base 1&2 then lose the will to hurt myself but last year I did not even completely manage that  :facepalm:
Anyway let’s see how I go on hopefully can keep it going 3 months .

Re: Base training
« Reply #1974 on: October 03, 2020, 01:35:45 pm »
Just refined my Kickr/TrainerRoad setup with the addition of a second Cleva blower piggy-backed to the first.  One either side at the front - one pointing at the face and another at the body.

Even better - because they have a physical power switch I can set them at the desired level in advance and then voice-activate them using a smart plug when things are heating up (generally about 10 minutes in depending on the intensity.)  Saves a chilly start to the session or having to get off & flick the switch.  ::-)  ;D