Author Topic: Base training  (Read 71108 times)

Re: Base training
« Reply #25 on: September 30, 2015, 09:04:23 am »
And there’s me thinking ‘Winter base training’ was riding to a café fifty miles away on Sunday morning, and riding home on Sunday afternoon.  ;)

“5 or 6 weeks sharpening at the end of a winter”. I thought these were ‘Reliability trials’.  :thumbsup:

Re: Base training
« Reply #26 on: September 30, 2015, 12:03:47 pm »

Of course I could be wrong, but my experience is that too much quality gets quick results and then leads to colds, overtraining and underperformance. Been there and got the t shirt.

Cheers

Mike

What would you recommend over winter, in terms of turbo sessions?  I'll be commuting to work (~10km a day, 4 days a week) and doing a 3 to 4 hour ride at low tempo / high endurance at the weekends.  I had planned on doing a sweet spot session (high tempo / low threshold) for an hour plus 2x20 at mid to high threshold and maybe some 20/40 sprint sessions.  Should I dial it back?

Re: Base training
« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2015, 09:35:40 am »

Of course I could be wrong, but my experience is that too much quality gets quick results and then leads to colds, overtraining and underperformance. Been there and got the t shirt.

Cheers

Mike

What would you recommend over winter, in terms of turbo sessions?  I'll be commuting to work (~10km a day, 4 days a week) and doing a 3 to 4 hour ride at low tempo / high endurance at the weekends.  I had planned on doing a sweet spot session (high tempo / low threshold) for an hour plus 2x20 at mid to high threshold and maybe some 20/40 sprint sessions.  Should I dial it back?

What are you training for ?

I'm targeting longer distance TTs and do something similar, but my commute is longer (2 * 13 miles).   I'll be doing 2 sweet spot sessions and a 2*20 at just over threshold session a week.   Personally, I wouldn't bother with the sprint sessions or any weights work.

Volume for the Winter will be 10hrs of commuting, 3-4hrs per week of turbo work and a 3-4hr low tempo ride on a Sunday.

Re: Base training
« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2015, 11:23:43 am »

What are you training for ?


10 mile TTs starting in April, and generally just riding faster.  I would like to crack 30 km/h for 3 hours pace, rather than the 25 to 27 km/h I can do at the moment.

Re: Base training
« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2015, 11:32:43 am »

What are you training for ?


10 mile TTs starting in April, and generally just riding faster.  I would like to crack 30 km/h for 3 hours pace, rather than the 25 to 27 km/h I can do at the moment.

Not really an area I know as much about, but TT riders who focus on 10s and 25s tend do a lot of VO2 max work to 'pull threshold from above'.   Sprint session is probably OK and I've seen sessions like 30 * 30 (30s sec sprint:30sec rest for 30 reps) or 4/5 * 5mins @ VO2 max.   I probably couldn't get through a session like that but I do like a weekly 2*20 threshold session.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2015, 11:40:37 am »
I was doing a variety of stuff before PBP and I did do some VO2max sessions. They're quite tough, but productive. I think you shouldn't be doing more than 1-2 sessions a week at that intensity, though.

Circuit training on Monday has really disrupted my training, I've not done any bike training since last Thursday now; I've been sore for days.


Re: Base training
« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2015, 12:33:29 pm »
Did a 200k for fun on Sunday.   Have spent the last couple of weeks servicing the TT bike and getting it set up on the turbo.   I did start to do core work again a few weeks ago.

I have just bought a GPS and have been monitoring how hard I work on my commute.   Seems that answer is not really hard enough.


fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Base training
« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2015, 12:40:36 pm »
It doesn't matter how hard you work on your commute, surely- it's not part of the programme.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

mattc

  • "Hannibal"
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Re: Base training
« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2015, 12:53:01 pm »
Marginal Gains! Everything makes a difference - the afternoon ice-cream, the night of bad-sleep, the sprints to catch an amber light ...

I would say 10 hours of riding is quite significant for a part-time athlete - how hard/easy they are will have a big effect.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Base training
« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2015, 12:59:34 pm »
It doesn't matter how hard you work on your commute, surely- it's not part of the programme.

I had always had it down as zone 2 work, but it transpires I'm not even in zone 2 very much.   It's never been included as a proper training session, but I'm thinking of just pushing a little harder each way.    Of course on the days where I do 2hours tempo on the turbo and then ride in it'll be at a lower intensity.

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2015, 01:21:08 pm »
Outdoor rides tend to be less productive per hour than indoor rides but a 13 mile each way commute done at reasonable intensity still seems like significant volume.

Re: Base training
« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2015, 02:32:05 pm »
I made significant gains this year so am trying to do something similar this Winter but upping the volume and intensity, although there's a longer ramp as I need to peak later in 2016.

Re: Base training
« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2015, 02:50:21 pm »
Commuting becomes a bit of Fartlek.

Trying to keep up with the traffic between junctions.

DO NOT, on a commute, try to get home in less time This leads to risk-taking and maybe hospitalisation or worse.


Oh, and question.
Is HIIT 'lactic acid' or 'Phosphocreatine'?

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Base training
« Reply #38 on: October 01, 2015, 03:00:07 pm »
I figure that year-round riding is sufficient for me to enjoy 200/300s and to grit my teeth round 600+ brevets. More focused riding in Spring and Summer allows me to enjoy 1000/1200s, rather than just finish them.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Base training
« Reply #39 on: October 01, 2015, 03:10:17 pm »
I was told on the TT forum that HIIT was VO2max and above.   Threshold work doesn't qualify.
   

Re: Base training
« Reply #40 on: October 01, 2015, 04:25:35 pm »
I wrote a long reply earlier, but it seems to have disappeared. Will have another go later....

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #41 on: October 01, 2015, 04:26:29 pm »
My favourite VO2max workout that I've done is this one:

https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/1818-solomons

Last time I did it:

https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/2250154-Solomons

HIIT is often much shorter intervals than this, e.g. 30s or 60s. These are 3 and 2 minute intervals at 115% FTP and 130% FTP respectively. I found I could complete this one without reducing the target intensity.

Another, which is 12x3 minutes at 120% FTP, I could not complete at the full intensity.


Re: Base training
« Reply #42 on: October 02, 2015, 08:13:06 am »
Yup. A 10s sprint at max speed on level ground.

Be sure though, you are fully warmed up for at least an hour at ‘evens’.

PS. The 10s sprint might be 300% FTP.

Bobby

  • Previously called "Can't Climb"
Re: Base training
« Reply #43 on: October 02, 2015, 08:24:57 am »
Be sure though, you are fully warmed up for at least an hour at ‘evens’.

What if you can't ride an hour at 'evens' (not tried yet, even if I can, it wouldn't be a warmup!)  :facepalm:

<gets coat>

Re: Base training
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2015, 08:44:01 am »
Now I've had a closer look at the data, my commute is more Zone 2 than I thought.   I may be subconsciously trying a little harder, but I reckon of the hour I each way I'm in zone 2 about 75% of the time.   I think this is a suitable base to work from and to build more intense sessions around it.   Won't be doing anything over Zone 4 though.

CrazyEnglishTriathlete

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Re: Base training
« Reply #45 on: October 07, 2015, 02:30:49 pm »
I target the 4..6 or 5..7 rep ranges for the major muscle group lifts. I'm not sure it's ideal for endurance cycling to do such low rep ranges though.

When I was training with weights I tended to do 15x Supersets so 15 Squats, 15 Deadlifts repeat 3 times.  The weights were moderate compared with my maximum lift, but the focus was strength-endurance.  I've always found it difficult to directly correlate training to performance on the road, but my ability to put a steady power down up hill for a long period of time developed significantly when I had this sort of superset as part of my training regime.  I haven't done this sort of work for 3 or 4 years now and feel that my uphill time trialling ability is waning.  Though that might just be age combined with lack of desire to suffer.
Eddington Numbers 122 (imperial), 165 (metric) 510 (furlongs)  110 (nautical miles)

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #46 on: October 07, 2015, 02:39:29 pm »
When I started doing squats, I happened to be riding up Mudgeley Hill in Wedmore a fair bit.

Beforehand, my PR on the strava segment for the short, steep start of the climb was 57s. After, I improved to 48s without really trying. Having noticed the improvement, next time I tried harder, but messed up because I'd not realised where the segment end was (it was longer than I'd thought). I did 49s. Then 36s. Then 37s, and finally 34s.

48s would have been around 550th out of 1500-odd.

34s is 18th.

Who knows whether the squats helped, but my feeling is they've improved my ability for these short bursts of power to get up short, sharp climbs on fixed. They've also made me heavier (as has the other weight training) so it may have reduced my ability on longer climbs.


EDIT: should be up to 17th - KOM was clearly in a car.  ::-)

Re: Base training
« Reply #47 on: October 08, 2015, 10:36:43 am »
I do feel I lose out uphill and into a headwind in TTs as I don't seem to have the power (torque ?) at low cadence.   I did reps of 4minute intervals with the resistance cranked on the turbo up last Winter, but they became my most hated session, so haven't planned any for this Winter.   I don't have weights or access to a gym.

I have put a bigger gear on the bike before putting it back on the turbo this Winter so I may be able to build lower rev power more in a more subtle way.

fboab

  • It's a fecking serious business, riding a bike
Re: Base training
« Reply #48 on: October 08, 2015, 10:50:58 am »
I'm finding the hardest part of The Plan is the spinning.
Big-Ass gears at <60RPM a piece of proverbial (HRMax-ing) piss- but then I'm happier on 73" than 69" and can leg press much more than my not-insignificant bodyweight. Maintaining 90+RPM and keeping HR 80 or 85% just isn't happening. I reckon it's the lardy legs- you try strapping a 2kg weight on each thigh and see how long you can spin them at 100RPM, Mr Coach.
TSS is not Total Sex Score, Chris!

simonp

  • Omnomnomnipotent.
Re: Base training
« Reply #49 on: October 08, 2015, 11:10:36 am »
I had a deload week last week and should be doing Tempo intervals tonight. But the squats on Tuesday have made my quads very sore today, so I dunno.