Author Topic: [LEL17] Mini LEL?  (Read 5859 times)

Re: Mini LEL?
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2017, 05:01:36 pm »

But you still haven't answered the question about who the organiser will be  ;D

E X A C T L Y  !!  Nor if DW will allow such a happening.  As previously said if there was additional scope to slot more riders into LEL that is what would happen


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Re: Mini LEL?
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2017, 06:14:42 pm »
As previously said if there was additional scope to slot more riders into LEL that is what would happen
This is not about adding riders to LEL - it is a very different proposition.

I suggest you read ESL's posts about the timings of rider arrivals at the northern controls; there is wasted capacity for quite long periods.

This won't be a surprise to anyone who has volunteered at an event. (Apart from the start!) there are always long quiet periods. The longer and bigger the event, the more predicatable this pattern becomes - even more so when we have several editions of historical data.

[AUK has a number of "piggy-backed" events in the regular calendar where canny organisers send riders out on different events on the same day, using some of the same controls.]
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Re: Mini LEL?
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2017, 06:58:59 pm »
It depends on Danial's attitude, and also on when the school at Brampton is available. Heather has always liked a full day before the arrival of the first riders.

There was no access to the kitchens for the volunteers in 2013, the professional caterers  could use it, but the volunteers weren't insured in their absence. I'm told that the facilities company that now does the cooking wants to cater for LEL. That's the same arrangement as Edinburgh.

I note that Danial has booked the hostel in Alston, so that might function as a control for the Sunday night if the economics of the Brampton control dictate taking it on from Monday morning. I know what Heather's response might be if she had to set the control up while it's active. It's possible logistically, but she'd be very grumpy.

The Brampton control is the most expensive control, as it's open for so long. it's worth looking at Jo's visualisation, and adding up the outbound and return visit overlap.

There's been a lot of work done on modelling a smoother demand profile for the controls over the years. A Northern start to provide greater occupancy in the first part of the ride was abandoned, as it meant controls being booked for too long. A northern start which didn't go South of York wouldn't do that.

However, I would anticipate complaints from London, which is why I worked out a way that they could participate easily. I actually have in mind randonneur couples, one might want to do the 1400, while their partner might like to share the experience, but in a shorter format. In 2001  Matt Settle and Liz Crotty came from the USA to ride LEL from Thorne, as they wanted to visit Yorkshire, specifically Settle. Liz dropped out at Thorne, gaining the 800 homologation.

I feel there's a demand for a northern ride, all it really needs is a sleep control at about 16 hours, a routesheet and a brevet card. It could be restricted in a number of ways, former volunteers, former riders, partners of 2017 riders. It could improve the figures for the Northern controls. It could also be a business opportunity for a coach company.

I'd be up for organising a 200 rider event using surplus capacity from LEL, and avoiding a clash with fully stretched controls. Obviously if it's linked with LEL the organisers would define the entry criteria, and price. I'd also draw up a spec for coach companies to quote, although I'd like a margin on that. It's not conceptually different from a sports club tour, apart from carrying bicycles.

Re: Mini LEL?
« Reply #28 on: February 19, 2017, 09:27:01 pm »

I suggest you read ESL's posts about the timings of rider arrivals at the northern controls; there is wasted capacity for quite long periods.


I read it all very carefully.   All seems to have gone quiet? ?? Why would that be Matt  ??

Re: Mini LEL?
« Reply #29 on: February 19, 2017, 09:57:18 pm »
I have sent out an enquiry to a local coach travel firm, following a telephone discussion. It's difficult to know who might be the best value. Possibly a company in the Harlow area?

Any comments on the idea of centring it on York/Pocklington and Carlisle/Brampton? Bag Drop choices would tend to suggest those as being the likeliest controls to need additional volunteers, as well as being obvious tourist hubs. I did wonder if some might like to ride from Barnard Castle to Carlisle, hence the need for a bike trailer.

I phoned on Friday about an event that might give rise to a holiday tour. From 30th July to 4th August, there’s a 1,400 km bike ride between London and Edinburgh, and return. 1,500 cyclists will come from around the world to ride that distance in less than 116 hours.

Many of those riders will bring relatives. So a tour taking some of the route would be a good idea. The event has been run every 4 years since 1989, and it’s developed to a stage where the volunteers who help the riders also need moving about. Here’s a route outline.

I’d envisage a tour starting in Loughton, Essex on Saturday 29th, progressing to York for an overnight, with a possible drop-off of volunteers at Pocklington nearby. From there the tour would take in Castle Howard, then the Bowes Museum in Barnard Castle. One of the highlights of the ride is through Teesdale to Alston on the B6277. That’s actually a better road than it sounds, but clashing with the cyclists might be a problem. Carlisle is a possible overnight stop, as there are plenty of budget hotels, via Brampton, as there is a rest point for the cyclists there.

A trip to Edinburgh from there is a possibility. But could be a rail option for those who want to go there, with a Lake District trip for others. Overnight again in Carlisle, then overnight near York on the return to Loughton.

Those travelling might have bicycles, and equipment might have to be moved between rest stops, so a luggage trailer would be needed.

The basic schedule is for a 4 night trip starting from Loughton Essex, stay York 29th July, Carlisle 30th and 31st, York 1st August, return to Loughton 2nd. with a possible overnight there.

 An initial costing for a large coach with half the passengers needing accommodation would be useful at this stage, to gauge the interest.


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Re: Mini LEL?
« Reply #30 on: February 20, 2017, 12:12:33 am »
Obviously from my point of view it would make a good film to follow LEL through volunteers and relatives, but I could just hire a minibus, and take a few people with me. Doing what the bag-drop team does, but filming. Maybe it's a better idea to be the media car. I do know all the best viewpoints.

Re: Mini LEL?
« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2017, 01:50:36 pm »
I boiled down my thoughts about what I'd want from all the above. It's largely about what I want to film. I've got plenty of LEL scenery with cyclists in it, the Humber Bridge, Yad Moss, the Southern Uplands etc.

I've done three LEL films which are essentially souvenirs, which means capturing as many faces as possible. At 1,500 it can't be done. So the followers might actually be a more manageable subject, and much easier to record.

The easiest way to achieve that is to book some rooms at a convenient location, and work out some DIY rides from there. I've booked 9 twin rooms at the Days Inn at Gretna Green on the 30th and 31st of July. That's the Sunday and Monday nights of LEL.

It's at the services on the M74 motorway, so it's on the LEL course. So there's an opportunity to ride that part clockwise or anti-clockwise. The only repeated bit would be Langholm-Gretna. Personally I wouldn't do that, there's some fantastic riding West of Gretna, in the Southern uplands. There is also an obvious route down to Penrith, over Hartside, and into Alston, then back along the LEL route.

My ideas about visits to York can be done by train, the York to Carlisle route takes in the famously scenic Settle-Carlisle line. Then it's about 12 miles to Gretna Green.

I can cancel the rooms up to midday on the 30th July. My arrangements would allow me to film the Saturday and the early starts, and either return North by train, or in a hired van, carrying bikes or drop bags.

There a number of ways it could work out. The only deadlines I have is the cancellation date. For visitors the deadline comes from advance rail bookings, which are a lot cheaper.


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Re: Mini LEL?
« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2017, 03:51:43 pm »
That sounds like a cool idea ESL, though I'll be otherwise occupied riding LEL.
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Re: Mini LEL?
« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2017, 04:04:44 pm »
Hopefully I'll see you on the way. People might recognise you, as I've got the next LEL 2005 segment ready to roll. I'm keeping it separate from the LEL 2017 stuff, as they've got their own story to write.

"It would be a great ride if they held it in Summer".

It also features Sheila on her 800 perm.


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Re: Mini LEL?
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2017, 08:10:33 pm »
ESL have you considered adding drone footage? Or perhaps crowdsourcing your footage? Given your documentary heritage on audax events, riders with their own video devices might be keen to share thier material with you to give a broader picture of the entire event in one package.
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Re: Mini LEL?
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2017, 08:40:27 pm »
I used Lee Millon's handlebar cam footage on the PBP 2011 film. The important thing is to get stable 25 fps footage. There's a Sony Action cam that does that well, GoPros tend to produce 'jello'. I've got a Sony so that may find its way onto a bike on the Southern Section.

Drones are interesting.  Much of the  PBP DVD drone footage was staged, with no cyclists in it. I've been looking at the current state of the art, which is a Skoda advert with Bradley Wiggins on the Llanberis Pass.

There's a 'making of' film as well.

We did that kind of filming in Scotland in 2005, without drones, and it means going up and down for half a day. The 'Mini LEL' idea was partly about getting someone who can do that on the Yad Moss climb, to get that sort of footage. It might produce two minutes, and assumes the drone can fly, with no wind. For the on bike interviews on the LEL 2013 video we spent three hours going up and down in the car on the climb from 6.30am. There's also some stuff we shot later.

Striking a balance between set pieces and 'reality' is difficult. We've already got a lot of the scenery, we need some controllable human interest, following individual riders is hit and miss, especially in the more interesting later sections when everyone is tired.

Re: Mini LEL?
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2017, 12:05:14 pm »
[quote author=Exit

Might it be possible to run a 600, starting in York perhaps, using Moffat and Edinburgh for a sleep stop, the outward controls for feeding, and a route avoiding controls on the way back.

That could provide a fall-back goal for entrants whose training might not go as planned.


All quiet is it a NO NO?

Re: Mini LEL?
« Reply #37 on: March 01, 2017, 10:51:16 am »
I had a look at the film I made of LEL 2005. That was the last Thorne start, and the one where Sheila Simpson did the Thorne-Edinburgh-Thorne 800 as a permanent. That was only ever intended as a record, for showing at club events, and I made a small number DVDs. It's got copyright music on it, so I never promoted it widely, and I've been putting it on Vimeo in episodes.

I rode the event, and I'd done the non-perishable shopping for the Langdon Beck control. There was some social media chatter about the event beforehand, but I was only aware of newsgroups at that point.

The big advantage for filming from the bike was that the two starts crossed and recrossed a lot. So if something interesting passed me, I could turn round and film them. As the ride progressed the fastest Lee Valley starters came past. That gave me an insight into the dynamics of that two-start approach, and I viewed it with some affection.

I can quite see why the current organisers don't like the idea of added complexity, as the booking process is very time-consuming, and some participants expect a lot of spoon-feeding. But I feel there are some opportunities to extend the 'LEL Offer' within the current arrangements. The 'Mini LEL' idea is just a way I thought of catering for those who've committed themselves to a trip to LEL, but who find that they've overestimated their abilities.

A 'Mini LEL' starting from Loughton is another possibility, but I'm based in the North, wth a detailed knowledge of the route, I'm not so familiar with the Southern section, as when I rode it was completely different. I'm not sure if the 2017 route touches any of the 2001/2005 and 2009 routes South of the A64, as none of the controls are the same.


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Re: Mini LEL?
« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2017, 08:20:11 am »
That's probably a good idea in principle, especially as the Northern bit of LEL is the most interesting, but unless somebody volunteers to organise it, it won't happen.

Re: Mini LEL?
« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2017, 11:04:43 am »
It's more a matter of principle. There was a lot of sense in focusing solely on London in 2009 and 2015, as they bracketed the Olympics. But cycling has developed very fast, and LEL is insignificant in comparison with Ride London. PBP started from the National Velodrome, LEL is not at that level.

I accept that having a Northern England start and a London start means that expensive controls have to be open for longer than with a single start.
But there's a combination of excess demand and surplus capacity that could be offset by a shorter ride using the same facilities, through areas which are highly appreciated by visitors.