All I want is a horizontal top tube...

[Highlander]

Firstly please please please don't let this thread turn into a debate on the merits or otherwise of the compact frame I'm well aware of the many good reasons for this design taking over the cycling world and I know that I am in the minority in preferring "square" frames but there it is. 

My problem is, I would like to buy a new frame, not a complete bike, that has a genuinely horizontal top tube, disc brake fittings, decent tyre clearance and mudguard eyes (ie not a "road" bike).

So far, all I can come up with is the Surly Straggler and the VO Pass Hunter.  I'm not sure if the TT on the Surly disc trucker is horizontal, in the pictures it looks to me like it slopes ever so slightly compared to the Straggler but this might be an optical illusion.

Actually there aren't that many complete bikes on offer, the Jamis Aurora looks nice, there's a couple made by Pashley and the likes of Dawes but none of these AFAIK are available as a frame only option.

Does anyone have other suggestions? 

[Cudzoziemiec]

I was going to suggest the Singular Peregrine but it seems to be out of production. However, the Singular disc Kite might qualify when it becomes available, though its top tube may not be sufficiently horizontal for you.

[giropaul]

Ridley X-Bow . I use the canti version as a winter bike, mudguard eyes, bottle cages and tons of clearance (and a horizontal tt).

[P Walsh]

There doesn't seem to be much out there. A horizontal top tube is still available from bespoke frame builders like Mercian, but getting that with new fangled disc brakes takes you to a place with few options.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Take a look at Surly http://surlybikes.com/bikes The straggler looks like it meets your requirements

[Bledlow]

The Hewitt Chiltern looks pretty horizontal, & it has mudguard & rack eyes, etc. Dunno if it has enough tyre clearance for you, though. I think it's supposed to be up to 28mm.

[Ed] Oops! Missed the disc brake fittings requirement. Sorry.

[sojournermike]

Some of the stragglers slope down to the front.

The VO Pass Hunter disc looks good. I've got a canti version. The only thing to be aware of is that the disc mounts are IS, so you will be able to fit Post Mount discs, but not the new flat mount standard.

The Trucker has a sloping top tube.

Chris Marshall in Keighley would almost certainly build you a disc braked bike - I have seen one of his and it was lovely.

Mike

[vorsprung]

The appearence can be deceptive but these seem to be at least near horizontal

http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/default.php?cPath=28

[sojournermike]

The appearence can be deceptive but these seem to be at least near horizontal

http://www.bobjacksoncycles.co.uk/default.php?cPath=28

All, bar the open lady's frame, horizontal, but not sure about Donald's attitude to discs. Worth a call.

Actually, Kevin Sayles at Woodrup would build a disc bike too I imagine.

Mike

[mattc]

Van Nicholas? Some of theirs certainly used to be horizontal.

[Highlander]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Singular Peregrine...grrrr... yes, pretty much what I was looking for and I wish I had a fiver for every time someone has told me that's what I need and another fiver for every time I reply in exasperation yes, BUT THEY DON'T MAKE THEM ANY MORE.  The TT on the disc kite slopes BTW.

Ridley X Bow the disc version has sloping TT and not available as frame only AFAIK.

Surly Straggler - pay attention at the back there.  As I said in the OP the only one that meets my requirements so far, though there doesn't seem to be many in the uk at the mo.

Hewitt Chiltern - not disc brakes. 

Re Velo Orange, I am drawn to the Pass Hunter but I've heard via US forums there may be quality control problems.  Hopefully buying through uk dealers should be ok.  I just wish I could buy something that was produced by a British company.  As far as post mount calipers goes surely it will be a long time before flat mount calipers become the norm? 

Van Nicholas are all sloping these days and for that sort of money I'd be more inclined to get a bespoke steel frame than an off the peg titanium rig.

The thing is, if my requirement didn't include mounts for discs, in the wise words of Arthur Daly the world is my lobster.   There are any number of options, - such as Bob Jacksons - or I could trawl through scores of secondhand frames on ebay.

The disc thing isn't so much about braking it's the facility to be able to swap wheel sizes, in particular 700c to 650b (there's a very good reason why I want to be able to do this it's basically to do with space saving).

 

 

     

[PaulF]

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Singular Peregrine...grrrr... yes, pretty much what I was looking for and I wish I had a fiver for every time someone has told me that's what I need and another fiver for every time I reply in exasperation yes, BUT THEY DON'T MAKE THEM ANY MORE.  The TT on the disc kite slopes BTW.

...

Surly Straggler - pay attention at the back there.  As I said in the OP the only one that meets my requirements so far, though there doesn't seem to be many in the uk at the mo.
...

Shame Sam's not doing the Peregrine at the moment as it would be just the job, certainly very happy with mine.

I think that Charlie the Bikemonger imports Surly? He may be able to help you out - he certainly has a Disk Trucker on his website

[robgul]

Van Nicholas? Some of theirs certainly used to be horizontal.

The Van Nic Yukon has a virtually horizontal cross-bar (let's use the real terminology here!) - which is partly why I chose that over other Ti frames to succeed my 1975 Galaxy  - BUT I'm not sure about discs (obv the front forks are not a problem, whether anything disc-ish would work on the back I know not)

Rob

[Highlander]

Van Nicholas? Some of theirs certainly used to be horizontal.

The Van Nic Yukon has a virtually horizontal cross-bar (let's use the real terminology here!) - which is partly why I chose that over other Ti frames to succeed my 1975 Galaxy  - BUT I'm not sure about discs (obv the front forks are not a problem, whether anything disc-ish would work on the back I know not)

Rob

Yes the Yukon does look horizontal and a good price for a titanium frame but as you say no discs.

Others have suggested a hybrid set up changing the front fork for a disc compatible one but that doesn't address my wheel swapping needs.

In a way I wish I could get over it as there are so many options these days if you don't mind a sloping crossbar, maybe I have some sort of medical condition I just hate things not being straight or level when I think they should be it's just as well I don't live in Pisa..  I guess it's also a generation thing, probably most cyclists these days have spent their formative years in the compact frame era, I still think it's an odd look. 

[Kim]

I suppose smaller riders, and those who grew up in the MTB era are used to them.  I agree that horizontal top tubes look better, but I can't remember ever riding a bike that had one.

[rr]

The Rose disc cross frames seem to fit your spec. I'm not sure if they'll sell you a frame but you can ask.

[Blodwyn Pig]

I know what you mean about level and square. My Pearson 631 (12 years old now) has one, then I got the Bob Jackson world tour, that certainly had one, and with a quill stem too. but that was 'toasted' in an RTA.
So move on to no3. its  a sloping tt disc tourer. I didn't think I'd like it ,as I too have an eye for the out of plumb. Ironically a horizontal TT frame looks crap without a quill stem. It looks even crapper with a semi erect  ahead stem on top of a stack of spacers. Once you realise this, then custom IS the only way. OR
A sloping TT 'compact' disc, actually (dare I actually say it) looks quite sexy with a longish seatpost, and an gentle upwardly sloping stem ( 0 deg rise). I never thought about the astheticts of a compact, but they look crap with a horizontal stem. Its all about following the angles.

Just start looking at compact discs (CD ) and you'll see what I mean. Its a modern thing, discs on a Horz TT LOOK wrong, a bit like wire wheels on a Ford Focus, .......yes you could, but.......?

[Bledlow]

I suppose smaller riders, and those who grew up in the MTB era are used to them.  I agree that horizontal top tubes look better, but I can't remember ever riding a bike that had one.

All my bikes until I bought an MTB in 1998. Mrs B's Orbit (1980s frame, 21st century drive train) has one.

[L CC]

Just start looking at compact discs (CD ) and you'll see what I mean. Its a modern thing, discs on a Horz TT LOOK wrong, a bit like wire wheels on a Ford Focus, .......yes you could, but.......?

Tell that to all those guys with carbon bikes and B17.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, in bikes as everything else. Viva Les differences.

[Highlander]

I know what you mean about level and square. My Pearson 631 (12 years old now) has one, then I got the Bob Jackson world tour, that certainly had one, and with a quill stem too. but that was 'toasted' in an RTA.
So move on to no3. its  a sloping tt disc tourer. I didn't think I'd like it ,as I too have an eye for the out of plumb. Ironically a horizontal TT frame looks crap without a quill stem. It looks even crapper with a semi erect  ahead stem on top of a stack of spacers. Once you realise this, then custom IS the only way. OR
A sloping TT 'compact' disc, actually (dare I actually say it) looks quite sexy with a longish seatpost, and an gentle upwardly sloping stem ( 0 deg rise). I never thought about the astheticts of a compact, but they look crap with a horizontal stem. Its all about following the angles.

Just start looking at compact discs (CD ) and you'll see what I mean. Its a modern thing, discs on a Horz TT LOOK wrong, a bit like wire wheels on a Ford Focus, .......yes you could, but.......?

Well Mr Pig you have given me something to think about there.  I do think one of the problems with a sloping tt is the clash of angles with the stem, I have a winter bike based on a Raleigh Airlight which I hasten to add was given to me (actually someome dumped it by our wheelie bins) and it always reminds me of a bird with a broken wing, the angles are not just ugly it's almost painful to look at. 

But on reflection I think you may have a point about the quill stem, and the discs.  But discs are ugly things full stop, on any bike, I know I am compromising.  Actually I wonder if I might be able to get away with long reach calipers to get a 700/650b wheel swap..?

Back to the sloping tt I suspect it might take a bit of research to find a bike with the right geometry so you can get the tt angle and stem angle looking just right?  I doubt many people give it much thought, I don't think aesthetics come into it for most buyers. 

The trouble with the "custom" route (and your moniker suggests you must be similar vintage to me so you might sympathise) is that one gets to a certain age where the morphology starts to change year by year.  I rode with the same position for maybe 30 years but as things start to stiffen up (ooh matron..) and shrink (stop it now) I find myself constantly making adjustments so a made to measure frame would just be a waste of money, I fear.  Which is probably another good reason for learning to live with the modern compact frame.     

But, as yet, I don't think I've ever looked at such a bike with the envy I feel for owners of classic "square" frames.

[andrew_s]

I'm not sure if the TT on the Surly disc trucker is horizontal, in the pictures it looks to me like it slopes ever so slightly compared to the Straggler but this might be an optical illusion.

It slopes a little - about half the tubing diameter (15 mm) lower at the rear.

[robgul]

Van Nicholas? Some of theirs certainly used to be horizontal.

The Van Nic Yukon has a virtually horizontal cross-bar (let's use the real terminology here!) - which is partly why I chose that over other Ti frames to succeed my 1975 Galaxy  - BUT I'm not sure about discs (obv the front forks are not a problem, whether anything disc-ish would work on the back I know not)

Rob

Yes the Yukon does look horizontal and a good price for a titanium frame but as you say no discs.

Others have suggested a hybrid set up changing the front fork for a disc compatible one but that doesn't address my wheel swapping needs.

In a way I wish I could get over it as there are so many options these days if you don't mind a sloping crossbar, maybe I have some sort of medical condition I just hate things not being straight or level when I think they should be it's just as well I don't live in Pisa..  I guess it's also a generation thing, probably most cyclists these days have spent their formative years in the compact frame era, I still think it's an odd look.

... I should have been clearer ... I bought f&f not a complete bike so had the choice of forks (most of the Van Nic dealers I spoke to would swap bits and pieces on a complete bike purchase)

Rob

[Vince]

I was going to suggest a Genesis CdF. However looking at a photo of mine it does have a gently sloping top tube.
The reason I didn't know this? I mostly look at it from the saddle.

[Blodwyn Pig]

well, one solution, but it does not involve discs, is to buy a new frame, say a Bob jackson World tour, but able to take long reach calipers ( as in the end to end), but also have cantilever bosses fitted , in a suitable spot to accommodate 650b. Obviously the BB height will drop when you swap, dependant on tyre size.

But I am intrigued by the 'space saving bit' ?

[IanDG]

Firstly please please please don't let this thread turn into a debate on the merits or otherwise of the compact frame I'm well aware of the many good reasons for this design taking over the cycling world and I know that I am in the minority in preferring "square" frames but there it is. 

I agree, sloping top tubes are the spawn of the devil.

There, I've said it. Good to get it off my chest