Author Topic: Shimano 10-speed cassettes, Mavic hubs and spacers  (Read 1156 times)

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Shimano 10-speed cassettes, Mavic hubs and spacers
« on: April 17, 2016, 06:24:13 pm »
I thought I had this all wrapped up, but I learned something new today.

So I have 2 sets of wheels for my general purpose bike.
All 10-speed.

The original cheap Shimano R500, shod with M+ which I use in winter.
The R500 winter wheels have just had a new Ultegra CS-6700 cassette installed, and the indexing is sweet.

I also have a pair of Mavic Axiums which were supplied with my carbon bike, but surplus to requirement.
They have a cheap Tiagra-level CS-4600 cassette on them.
So I use these as 'summer' wheels on the general hack bike.

Nice day today, so I decide it's time to swap the wheels.
The indexing was fairly shit, but I didn't adjust it on the road, because I planned to swap the nice shiny cassette onto the nicer wheels when I got home.

So the Mavic wheels with shit indexing had the mavic 1.75mm spacer, but no shimano 1mm 10-speed spacer.
Usually, both are required.
I cursed the person who assembled it, and fitted the new Ultegra CS-6700 with both spacers as $deity intended.
All is sweet.

So I go to put the Tiagra CS-4600 onto the R500 wheels.
I find a 10-speed spacer, and assemble it.
But I can't.   Google shimano tech docs.
The CS-4600 does not come with a 10-speed spacer, and cannot be used with one.
The 8 largest sprockets are all riveted together with 3 big long rivets.
The heads of the rivets are where the spacer would be, and act as a spacer themselves.
You can't add a 1mm 10-spd spacer, because it then sits too far out.

Now, this would be just fine and dandy, if the rivet heads were actually the same thickness ( 1mm ) as the spacers.
But they are not.
They are only about 0.5mm.
These Tiagra 10-speed cassettes don't sit in the same place as higher-grade cassettes with spacers, and it is enough to fuck up the indexing.

Highly tempted to grind off the rivet heads, and use a normal spacer.







Re: Shimano 10-speed cassettes, Mavic hubs and spacers
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2016, 07:33:47 pm »
I haven't read this post thoroughly but if it means you need a 0.5mm spacer then a BB one would fit, no?

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Shimano 10-speed cassettes, Mavic hubs and spacers
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2016, 08:31:56 pm »
Possibly.
But I have new information.

The mavic spacer has 3 cut-outs on it, specifically to take account of this fuckwittery.
So if you put the Mavic spacer on against the cassette, you can then put the 10-spd spacer behind it.
Obviously, you can't put the spacers the other way round.
The Mavic one needs to accommodate the rivet-heads.

The way it was installed on the supplied wheels is wrong, IMHO.
They had used the Mavic spacer, but not a shimano 10-spd one ( because it's not supplied with a CS-4600, because the rivet-heads substitute (badly)).
But the cutouts on the Mavic spacer prevents the river-heads from even acting as poor makeshift 10-spd spacers.

If the Mavic spacer is going to accommodate the rivet-heads and bottom out against the actual cassette, then the rivet-heads are no longer acting as spacers, and you need to source your own shimano 1mm 10-spd spacer and place it behind the Mavic one.   Which they had not done.

The end result is that the cassette was about 1mm out, which is enough to screw up the indexing.

I need to go experiment with it.


ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Shimano 10-speed cassettes, Mavic hubs and spacers
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2016, 09:43:07 pm »
I think you have just solved my problem.

I have exactly the same combination of wheels and possibly cassettes and have had similar spacer/no spacer issues.  Hadn't noticed the indents in the mavic space.

Will come back and re-read this not on a Sunday night when I'm knackered and with a glass of wine watching a fillum
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Feanor

  • It's mostly downhill from here.
Re: Shimano 10-speed cassettes, Mavic hubs and spacers
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2016, 09:51:08 pm »
It's not a big deal if you only have 1 set of wheels.
The indexing can be set up to allow for +/- a few mm.

But it's a PITA if you want to swap between different wheels, and the indexing is different.
Then you need to put the bike up on the stand, and twiddle the indexing every time you change wheels.