Group riding etiquette

[citoyen]

You were out enjoying your ride in your own way, they cut you up as you describe it and IMO you were quite right to be annoyed tell then to fxxx off. They don`t own the road, no matter how faster / better ?? riders they may have been. Bunch of idiots

Actually, I feel a bit more charitable towards them. I'm not really looking to apportion (or accept) blame, I'm mainly interested in working out what's the best way to act in such circumstances - as much for safety reasons as anything else. Could I have done anything different that would have mitigated the situation? When you crash, it doesn't matter whose fault it is, it still hurts just the same. Best avoid it if possible.

LWaB's comments have been particularly enlightening - it's good to understand why these situations arise and benefit from the greater experience of other riders. I know my own limitations as a rider (in group situations especially - I've never been a racer - which is part of the reason I often prefer to ride alone). I suspect that cyclists are just the same as motorists, in that the more experienced you are, the more likely you are to have picked up bad habits. The second group that passed me were riding in the way they were used to, which may not have been entirely appropriate for the situation but I don't think it was especially dangerous, they just didn't account for me not riding in the same way as them.

I don't feel any particular ill will towards the rider who told me to fuck off either - I don't think he actually did anything wrong, if anything it was other members of his group who were to blame for the situation rather than him. But actually I'd rather not have fallen out with him at all. It would have been more helpful to both of us if we'd been able to discuss the incident in a more civil manner.

Tbh, I encountered much worse riding on the closed-road sportive I did in Scotland back in May.

[Owthathurt]

Group riding eh............

Mostly ride alone these days......

In your place I'd just have roared something polite like "oy, fuck off will ya ya fucking muppets".

I have limited communication skills when annoyed.........................

[David Martin]

LWaB as usual talks lots of sense. We make a point of giving riders loads of room when passing on club runs and keep out till we are well past. There are enough of our own muppets in the paceline, we don't want to risk any others. This is up to the leader to take a good clear line.

However, if you are being passed, freewheel to let them go past and do give them crap if they cut in. That is just wrong.

Apart from the lack of understanding what to do in a group, the worst thing I found about sportives is the inconsistent pace, especially on corners. Slowing down for a gentle turn then sprinting out of the corner like a crit rider is just going to piss off the group, especially those at the back. If the leader can go round the corner that fast, so can you.

[mrcharly-YHT]

I think they were a bunch of dicks.

You say you held your pace. That's what you should do, for safety.

The only thing you maybe should have done but maybe you didn't, is bellowed at them when they didn't give enough room initially. That would have immediately made more of them aware that you were not part of their group.

If they were wearing a club jersey, I'd call the club and complain.

[Ian H]

LWaB has it about right, although the aggressive response from them sounds a bit off.

[Kim]

An aggressive response is exactly what you should expect from a bunch of dicks when you point out that they're a bunch of dicks.  See also: Motorists.

[citoyen]

If they were wearing a club jersey, I'd call the club and complain.

One rider (the one who told me to fuck off) was wearing a club jersey but the group was an ad hoc assembly of assorted riders who just happened to be doing the same event.

As it happens, I know someone who rides for the same club and I did consider having a word with him, but I don't think there's anything to be gained from it.

LWaB has it about right, although the aggressive response from them sounds a bit off.

To be fair, the "fuck off" was more miserable than aggressive.

Apart from the lack of understanding what to do in a group, the worst thing I found about sportives is the inconsistent pace, especially on corners. Slowing down for a gentle turn then sprinting out of the corner like a crit rider is just going to piss off the group, especially those at the back. If the leader can go round the corner that fast, so can you.

Oh god, yes. This was a multi-day event so I got to see the full range over the course of it - riding alone at times, with groups on various occasions, depending on how I felt at the time. In one group, I found myself behind a rider who was strong in a straight line but tended to brake quite heavily in corners, so I didn't stay with that group very long. Another group was wildly inconsistent with its pace - slowing down dramatically on the slightest incline, lead rider coasting on the flat, that sort of thing. Other times I found myself in groups that worked really well together, everyone taking a fair turn on the front, riding consistently and peeling off to rejoin at the back when they were done.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

It is interesting that the responses generally seem to correlate with the group riding experience of the respondents. Those that predominately ride solo think that the overtaking groups are dicks, pure and simple. Those that have ridden in groups extensively are a little more forgiving and think that citoyen could have chosen to do something to make things easier.

[Feanor]

Well, yes, but the basic rules of the road are that it it's the responsibility of anyone overtaking to do so safely etc etc.

The overtakee is under no obligation to assist in the manoeuvre (which is not of his choosing ), although in practice it will often make things easier if they do.

Just like sometimes, ceding your right-of-way just makes things work better for everyone.

[Bianchi Boy]

I ride with a club and group ride most weeks. The experience at the start of the thread is basically rude and caused friction. If the action caused a rider to struggle he was not able to ride with the pace and should have been angry with himself for not been fast enough.

BB

Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk

[Kim]

It is interesting that the responses generally seem to correlate with the group riding experience of the respondents. Those that predominately ride solo think that the overtaking groups are dicks, pure and simple.

I don't think that's true.  I think that an overtaking group (or individual) shouldn't make assumptions about the knowledge, ability or possible reactions of an unknown rider, and should behave accordingly in order to prevent a collision.  That applies as much to a peleton overtaking a solo rider as it does to a commuter overtaking a BSOist on a shared path.

I haven't ridden in formal groups, so the total of my knowledge (prior to this thread) is that behaving predictably tends to be a good way to avoid accidents.  As such, when being overtaken I hold my line, indicate hazards, and maybe ease off to maintain constant speed and/or some buffer space.  (TBH, when riding a recumbent, which I generally am when this sort of situation arises, I'm generally more concerned about what naive upwrong riders are getting up to in my blind spot, for much the same reasons.)


Swearing at people - while often understandable - is fairly dickish, thobut.

[mattc]

It is interesting that the responses generally seem to correlate with the group riding experience of the respondents. Those that predominately ride solo think that the overtaking groups are dicks, pure and simple.

I don't think that's true.

Which bit - the correlation, or the pure-simple-dick view?

[Ian H]

Recumbent riders may well feel differently. 

[Ningishzidda]

I hate it when they ride up silently behind and suddenly shout "PASSING!" right down my earhole.

[mattc]

I hate it when they ride up silently behind and suddenly shout "PASSING!" right down my earhole.

So we should add "contortionist" to your long list of skills?

[Ningishzidda]

IIRC, if another cyclist is overtaking and you don’t leave sufficient room between you and the cyclist ahead, its called ‘shutting the door’, which is bad form.

[citoyen]

IIRC, if another cyclist is overtaking and you don’t leave sufficient room between you and the cyclist ahead, its called ‘shutting the door’, which is bad form.

Yeah, that's why yer man was pissed off with me, which I can understand. When I'm riding as part of a group, I will make an effort to avoid doing this.

My view was that I didn't do it deliberately, and that it was more due to the way other members of the group were riding. However, I have taken on board the comments of LWaB and others and will bear them in mind for next time a similar situation arises.

[SA_SA_SA_SA]

I don't like being passed closely by (smooth sided) motor vehicles: so  why would other cyclists think its OK to pass another unknown cyclist closely? Unsurprisingly, I don't like that either...

[Karla]

It depends on the situation and the type of riding being done.  If Citoyen and the other cyclists were part of the same event, it wouldn't have been a massive crime for them to take it as read that he was up for a bit of chain ganging.

[citoyen]

It depends on the situation and the type of riding being done.  If Citoyen and the other cyclists were part of the same event, it wouldn't have been a massive crime for them to take it as read that he was up for a bit of chain ganging.

Indeed. I am mindful of that, and it does explain why the rider treated me as if I were part of the group. It can be dangerous to make assumptions like that though.

[Gareth Rees]

I suspect that cyclists are just the same as motorists, in that the more experienced you are, the more likely you are to have picked up bad habits. The second group that passed me were riding in the way they were used to, which may not have been entirely appropriate for the situation but I don't think it was especially dangerous, they just didn't account for me not riding in the same way as them.

I think this applies at all levels of experience. If you race, then you're used to riding elbow-to-elbow with other riders and so as far as you are concerned, giving someone 20 cm of room as you pass them is a wide berth—no-one would ever give you that much room in a race! But to an occasional Sunday club rider 20 cm feels like a dangerous close pass.

But similarly, if you have a little group riding experience then you're probably comfortable riding 50 cm apart, and so feel that giving a whole metre to someone you pass is loads of room. But for a beginner with no experience of cycling in groups, a metre might seem like no distance at all and feel really threatening.

[citoyen]

Good point well made.

[vorsprung]

i would agree with LWaB's approach of watching from the back for a bit.

There is a fantasy world of riders who behave well in a group, know some kind of unwritten rules, are polite and great company.  I don't think I have ever come across a group like this who weren't people I already knew.

Random strangers on a sportive or audax are pretty unlikely to be any use as a riding group

Rude people in a group - check
Idiots in a group - check
Poor riding - check
Over taking me and then stopping in the middle of the road because they don't know where they are going - check

Don't get me wrong, I've met all kinds of nice, loverly people on these kind of events but don't count on that pack up the road containing any of them!

 

[Kim]

On a related note, I have a pet theory that big fast groups aren't actually any worse at navigation than anyone else, just more noticeable when they cock it up.

[ElyDave]

Had a near miss myself today on an audax.  First on the recumbent and maybe not expected to be fast by other riders, quite a few were very surprised by my downhill acceleration and speed.

Anyway, coming up towards the top a hill, in low gear, a group of riders had stopped at the side of the road.  They all took off just as I was approaching them, one tacking into my path at 45deg across the road forcing me to evade into the other lane.  I yelled something like "watch it" and shouts of "careful of the recumbent from behind me" but not a sausage.

A tactical control got me back on the road ahead of them.  I spoke to the guy afterwards and he was very apologetic.