Sky - gaming the system?

[αdαmsκι]

[rogerzilla]

I once had injected steroids for asthma BUT I was under a year old at the time, so couldn't really use an inhaler, and it was life-threatening at the time (I was fortunate enough to grow out of asthma - I credit having two pet cats for that - at about the age of 40, having used salbutamol before exercise for years).

I haven't previously heard of otherwise fit adults needing injections for asthma or hay fever.

ICBA to read the entire thread, but Indurain faced similar questions for using salbutamol.  It is almost certainly performance-enhancing, although IME the effect strictly caused by the drug is fairly short-lived  - what it can do is get an asthma sufferer through the first half hour of exercise (normally asthma will come on in the first few minutes without an inhaler, especially in cold weather), after which they can keep going indefinitely.  however, if you take the inhaler and sit still for an hour, then ride, you'll probably still get asthma.  One curiosity with asthma is that it may give up trying to choke you and just disappear after about 20 minutes' exercise, if you can last that long.  And you usually can't last that long without the inhaler beforehand.

[Eccentrica Gallumbits]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/sep/30/bradley-wiggins-interview-tues

I think he comes across as credible in this.

[Hot Flatus]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/sep/30/bradley-wiggins-interview-tues

I think he comes across as credible in this.

Look at his sorry little face

[Aunt Maud]

Awwww, so puppy.

[mattc]

Look at his sorry little face

You've convinced me.

[simonp]

Personally, I find it hard to believe that three injections mean Wiggins whole career was a fraud. Could one injection really have lasted for three weeks of the tour?

30-40 days, allegedly.

[αdαmsκι]

Here's the view from one anonymous rider:

Wiggins won the Tour in 2012 and that was a result I wanted to have faith in. Now, I think he was kind of a puppet, just told what to do and when to do it. I think he did the same thing with his training, just so he didn’t have to think about it.

I see these TUEs as a loophole, and it’s something a lot of teams, including Sky, have exploited. They have not broken any rule, so you can’t call Wiggins a drug cheat. Unfortunately, you also have to ask the question: who is the guy at the UCI signing off on this? Back then, it was Mario Zorzoli, and now he’s gone; just disappeared off the face of the earth apparently.

For me, it’s all very disappointing.

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/10/the-secret-pro-cortisone-tues-world-championships-and-rider-transfer-season/

[DrMekon]

Here's the view from one anonymous rider:

Wiggins won the Tour in 2012 and that was a result I wanted to have faith in. Now, I think he was kind of a puppet, just told what to do and when to do it. I think he did the same thing with his training, just so he didn’t have to think about it.

I see these TUEs as a loophole, and it’s something a lot of teams, including Sky, have exploited. They have not broken any rule, so you can’t call Wiggins a drug cheat. Unfortunately, you also have to ask the question: who is the guy at the UCI signing off on this? Back then, it was Mario Zorzoli, and now he’s gone; just disappeared off the face of the earth apparently.

For me, it’s all very disappointing.

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/10/the-secret-pro-cortisone-tues-world-championships-and-rider-transfer-season/

Spot on. I wonder if anyone has gone back through the dates and mapped then against those photos of Wiggins looking stripped like Rasmussen.

[Hot Flatus]

"If you’re really all for clean sport, then why would you not join the MPCC? Then you see this, and you think, “Ah, that’s why they don’t want to join.”

"I’ve heard about this, with some of the Classics riders. They’ll pull out, a week or so before a big race, say they have a knee injury, or a sore ankle, or bronchitis, get a TUE for cortisone, get an injection, and then take a little more just before the race. If they get tested, they just say, “Eight days ago, I took something, and I have a TUE.” It’s the same sort of thing. Three days before the Tour de France? I mean, come on".

[αdαmsκι]

^^^^

Yeah, that was the other standout point from the Secret Pro and makes a lot of sense.

[citoyen]

I vaguely recall in 1999 following the Festina affair, the teams and riders were asked to sign a declaration that they weren't doping. The MPCC has about the same level of credibility as that.

I don't think the TUE thing is the reason for some teams leaving the organisation or not signing up in the first place. Only half the WT teams are members.

[αdαmsκι]

Team Sky has someone to carry an item from Manchester to the continent but the mule has no idea what's inside the package. Cope (the guy doing the trip) must have been pretty trusting that it wasn't anything dodgy as he passed through customs.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/cope-i-dont-know-what-was-in-the-package-for-team-sky/

[toontra]

Isn't everyone asked to sign a declaration when they fly that they know the contents of their luggage?

[mattc]

Isn't everyone asked to sign a declaration when they fly that they know the contents of their luggage?

Dunno, but I would guess there are limits e.g.
- Courier carrying confidential legal documents. or
- Owner of Samsung phone; would he/she know what sort of battery it uses?


I have a question too about the Cope case; how did these errands come to light? I couldn't work it out from the article 

[LittleWheelsandBig]

How many current phones don't use lithium batteries?

[Mr Larrington]

Isn't everyone asked to sign a declaration when they fly that they know the contents of their luggage?

Not IME.  They've even stopped asking whether you packed it yourself.

[toontra]

Isn't everyone asked to sign a declaration when they fly that they know the contents of their luggage?

Not IME.  They've even stopped asking whether you packed it yourself.

I think it's been incorporated into the online check-in procedure.  Have a look next time you fill in your details - I'm pretty sure there will be a check-box saying you know the contents of your luggage and packed it yourself.  It certainly has been the last few times I've flown.

[αdαmsκι]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/10/16/opinion/sunday/how-to-get-away-with-doping.html

[DrMekon]

Much as my prednisolone gives me some whoosh, I'll admit that article made me wonder what it'd take to get prescribe kenalog outside of a BC setting.  My respiratory consultant is ludicrously - worryingly, even - happy to throw more drugs at my chest problem. I'll ask him what he'd need to see for him to consider it.

[simonp]

I await your report on its effectiveness.

[Jakob]

It's a shame, because it's completely undermined the value of his wins. Yeah, it was 'legal', but I doubt he would be permitted to do the same thing with the current TUE system.
P.S. We have a hard enough time to get the doc to prescribe prednisolone for my wife and she has to be in the 'can barely breathe' state before they'll consider it. Would love to get her a cortisone injection and see what that would do!

[mattc]

It's a shame, because it's completely undermined the value of his wins. Yeah, it was 'legal', but I doubt he would be permitted to do the same thing with the current TUE system.

[my bold] That's completely a matter of personal opinion.

He won under the rules in place at the time. Rules change (not just for drugs); no one loses their titles just cos they weren't wearing a modern helmet, for example.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

It would only be in accordance with the rules if it was necessary treatment of a medical condition, not if it was for performance enhancement doping. It looks a lot like the latter.

[Samuel D]

Medical treatment is literally performance-enhancing.

I think the only “shame” in this case is the revisionist moralising that observers have been extraordinarily motivated to do, driven by who-knows-what reasons. I expect no better from various arms of the media, but the way cycling fans have jumped on the bandwagon is hugely disappointing. Wiggins has been put through the wringer. I hope he emerges with his head in one piece.