[LEL17] Keeping the route clean

[Bunker22]

Can we emphasise to entrants the need to take ALL their rubbish with them on the road until it can be disposed of properly. I am thinking of the multitude of discarded inner tubes and gel wrappers that I saw last time. Maybe even threaten non validation if you are caught leaving a tube at the side of the road after a repair.

[ElyDave]

too bloody right.  Everything goes in my pockets until I can get rid.

[redfalo]

Maybe even threaten non validation if you are caught leaving a tube at the side of the road after a repair.

+1

[hellymedic]

Maybe even threaten non validation if you are caught leaving a tube at the side of the road after a repair.

+1

Yup!

I am willing to accept that some light sweet wrappers and tissues could inadvertently get caught in the wind (I might not cross a busy road to retrieve this sort of thing) but deliberate littering is a definite sin.

[alwyn]

Never devise a rule that you can't police.

Wise words from Mr Undulates, AKA, our former events sec.

[hellymedic]

Good point, alwyn!

[Phil W]

I'm also intrigued as to where this multitude of inner tubes and gel wrappers was to be found? Certainly not something I spotted when riding LEL2013 and I hate it when I see fly tipping. Where on the route was this Bunker?

[Exit Stage Left]

Wasn't the London Cambridge bike ride on the same day as the LEL start, sharing part of the route?

[hellymedic]

Interesting, ESL.
IME AUKs are usually considerate and don't litter.
There might be exceptions though.

[Phil W]

Wasn't the London Cambridge bike ride on the same day as the LEL start, sharing part of the route?

Yes, they overlapped from south of Ware, the routes split there and rejoined in Cambridgeshire later on before they dashed east to Cambridge.

[L.Lagopus]

I don't recall seeing much at all in the way of cycling detritus along the roads. And I was well behind the main bunch for most of the ride. I did see a surprising amount of McDonald's wrappers (surprising because I did not see a single McDonald's), quite a few dead rabbits, hedgehogs and the occasional badger. The only cycling-related debris seemed to the occasional rider taking a road-side siesta.

[Bunker22]

It was discarded inner tubes that struck me most. Don't tend to see them discarded usually so I assumed it was a continental habit.

I was behind the bulge for most of the ride and remember pondering that  it might be possible to do the ride without any pocket food of my own as there was so much partially empty packets fallen out of jersey pockets. A sort of Ray Mears audax attempt.

[inappropriate_bike]

Never devise a rule that you can't police.

Likely impactical for LEL, but other events have tried to police the rule by swapping a [new or repaired inner tube]/[gel] for every [dead inner tube]/[empty gel packet] you turn in at a designated point along the route.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Maybe most AUKs don't drop litter but I saw a guy stop, take a "dead" inner tube out of his rack bag and drop it at the side of the road on Saturday's audax. That was only 1/14th of LEL and I've no idea if he was "an AUK" but he was certainly an audaxer. I gave him a Paddington Bear stare and he looked most taken aback. Didn't pick it up though.

[Si S]

Interesting, ESL.
IME AUKs are usually considerate and don't litter.
There might be exceptions though.

There were certainly a few exceptions on the National as I had to negotiate the electric fence to retrieve the polystyrene cups AND the re-usable holders from the farmers crop next door.  As to the pop bottles full of riders 'waste' left in the car park, well at least one needs to think about electrolyte levels. I mean FFS you've just ridden past 80km of hedgerows, why on earth do you feel the need to frigging bottle it at the control?  

[wilkyboy]

I mean FFS you've just ridden past 80km of hedgerows, why on earth do you feel the need to frigging bottle it at the control?  

If you "fertilise" a crop being grown organically, does that affect its "organic" status?  I often wonder ...

It has never stopped me, though

[wilkyboy]

I gave him a Paddington Bear stare and he looked most taken aback. Didn't pick it up though.

Isn't there something in the roolz about "good behaviour" or something — I could imagine your Paddington Bear stare being augmented with a word in the organiser's shell-like and someone not getting their brevet validated (unless they go back and pick up their own litter).  With a dose of common sense might work?  On LEL everyone's numbered after all (including Paddington Bear).

[Greenbank]

Always worth seeing what other big rides do:-

PBP has a 2h time penalty of "Environmental pollution" although penalties do not prevent a rider from continuing their ride, they can only be DQ'd after the ride has finished (e.g. refusal to validate their ride).

Also:-

"
Article 19 : Environment

All riders must respect the environment in the control towns and all over the route of the Paris-Brest-Paris Randonneur®. Riders will be liable for any damage noted.
It is strictly forbidden to litter on the road. Your eco-friendly behaviour benefits all riders, and the public image of randonneuring is at stake !.
"

[Wycombewheeler]

I mean FFS you've just ridden past 80km of hedgerows, why on earth do you feel the need to frigging bottle it at the control?  

If you "fertilise" a crop being grown organically, does that affect its "organic" status?  I often wonder ...

It has never stopped me, though

Only if you've been taking some fertiliser,  otherwise  all good.

[sizbut]

Never devise a rule that you can't police.

Whilst sage, equally you can't enforce a rule that you don't have (unless you want to try to capture deliberate littering under a general 'acceptable behaviour' clause for all entrants).

Naturally it's nicer up front to simply ask "please don't litter, please obey the highway code, please be nice to each other, etc.." in the hope that people are reasonable (not quite carrot but polite). And then warn that the organisers reserve the right to penalise or eject a rider from the event for non-compliance (stick).

[alwyn]

LEL is subject to AUK rules, of which 9.9.3. states "Riders who infringe AUK regulations, ignore event officials’ instructions, or behave in a manner likely to bring an event, an organiser, or AUK into disrepute may be excluded from the event and from future AUK events."

I think that covers all manner of anti-social behaviour, without me typing out a list of transgressions and penalties.

[mattc]

Never devise a rule that you can't police.

Whilst sage, equally you can't enforce a rule that you don't have (unless you want to try to capture deliberate littering under a general 'acceptable behaviour' clause for all entrants).

Naturally it's nicer up front to simply ask "please don't litter, please obey the highway code, please be nice to each other, etc.." in the hope that people are reasonable (not quite carrot but polite). And then warn that the organisers reserve the right to penalise or eject a rider from the event for non-compliance (stick).

You could also point out that littering is illegal in the UK. And personally I wouldn't bother with those "please"s.

Littering by cyclists IS a known problem on large events. It would be good to mitigate the problem. Look at it from the litterbug's perspective:

If you routinely throw your used wrappers (or tubes) into the hedgerow, are you likely to enter LEL, then read AUK Rule 9.9.3, and then suddenly stop littering?

[alwyn]

You could also point out that littering is illegal in the UK. And personally I wouldn't bother with those "please"s.

Indeed I could.

[Laid Back Rich]

Never devise a rule that you can't police.

Aha but I think you can, just the mere chance that you may be spotted by one of the motorbike marshals for example could be enough to make habitual litter louts think twice and change their filthy habits. A brief note in the riders' packs perhaps, e.g. "any rider seen deliberately littering will not receive a medal nor be validated".

I agree that audax riders are much cleaner than sportif riders, and think it would do our reputation no harm if we are seen to be trying to keep it that way.

[arabella]

Maybe most AUKs don't drop litter but I saw a guy stop, take a "dead" inner tube out of his rack bag and drop it at the side of the road on Saturday's audax. That was only 1/14th of LEL and I've no idea if he was "an AUK" but he was certainly an audaxer. I gave him a Paddington Bear stare and he looked most taken aback. Didn't pick it up though.

I go for the "you've dropped something" in an alarmed tone of voice.
It works OK with children. 
Yoof otoh was unabashed.  I remonstrated.  He refused on the grounds that a someone was employed to collect litter.  I pointed out that if no-one littered the someone else could be employed at a more interesting task.  Futile.  In the end I took the offending article with me as the most expedient option.  Hopefully there will be pause for thought on some future occasion.