Recommend me some wheels for all year commuting, audax and club rides

[spenceey]

Hi all

I've been reading these forums for a while but this is my first post.

I'm looking for some wheels currently for my new build (VN Yukon) which will suit me for all year round commuting (40 miles a day), club runs on the weekends and the occasional audax event.

As I'll be riding on these all year round I need them to be durable, which brings me on to asking, Spa cycles have Chrina 32 on to ultegra hubs for £250. Are ultegra hubs durable enough for all year riding?

I'd like to know what other options I have available Ambriso zenith on to Chrina seem like a very good deal at under £200.

I'm not entirely sold on mavic op. I haven't ever used them but read many horror stories, unless I can be convinced otherwise.

I've looked at hope hubs (which I was pretty sold on) until I heard that damn hub noise!

My budget would be £300 but if I found perfect wheels for a little more I'm sure I could stretch.

Cheers,
Spence

[Tewdric]

Welcome to the forum Spenceey.

Chrinas on Ultegra hubs would make ideal audax and general purpose wheels and Spa apparently build them very well.  I would choose 36h rather than 32 though - the weight difference is minimal for a significant benefit in durability.

Some people here have had durability issues with Zenith hubs, so make sure you research those properly before committing to them. 

Chrinas are excellent rims and have a thicker braking surface than Open Pros, so they are more durable, albeit a tiny bit heavier.  They are very popular with audaxers. 

I personally use Open Pro Ceramic on my audax bike, which are lighter than Chrinas but don't seem to wear at all due to the hard ceramic coating on the braking surface.  Spendy though and you need the right brake pads for them.

A lot of people here build their own wheels too - it's not difficut with patience and the right kit - if you want to find out more get hold of Roger Musson's ebook from www.wheelpro.co.uk and have a read.  There's an advantage for audaxers in learning to build wheels as you are then able to maintain them confidently on the road if you ever need to.

[Somnolent]

I've looked at hope hubs (which I was pretty sold on) until I heard that damn hub noise!

As i started to read your post I was thinking Hope !
Personally I love the noise of the Hope hubs, especially now they have quietened down a bit after a 100 miles or so.
Plus points for me are:
audible warning for errant peds
remind me to keep pedalling
IMO they roll a lot better than the Shimano 105 hubbed wheels I had before (with OP rims)
My Hopes are built in to Ambrosio Excellence rims which are worth a look too, or if you can stretch to it DT Swiss RR465.

I'd echo Tewdric's comments about home-built wheels using Roger Musson's book as a guide.  I won't ride anything else now.

[spenceey]

Ok glad to hear that Ultegra can hold up to year round riding, they will be picking up a lot of gunk during the winter months I'd imagine!

On the subject on Zenith hubs I've heard a lot of conflicting reviews, some people have said they are awesome for the money, but other people have had problems under 1k miles in. Could they be just a bad batch?

I have looked at the open pros and have also been swayed by them. Is there really much between them and Chrinas though? I can get a decent ultegra/ open pro CD (new ceramic) build for £265 here which is only £15 more than the Ultegra Chrina build.

I have thought of building my own wheels but at the moment time is of the essence, I may have a go at building up a wheelset during summer time, when I can sit out in the garden!

[GrahamG]

I use the Ultegra/Chrina combo.. re. durability, it really is no problem at all as long as the hub is properly adjusted and serviced every 6 months or so (maybe 4-6 for your mileage). The only thing worth mentioning is that the hubs really need checking for grease and adjustment when brand new - I've had too many over-tight shimano hubs from the factory not to check this every time. Spa may well do that anyway but it really is worth asking them.

[mrcharly-YHT]

You can't really compare Chrina and mavic OP. Chrina are a heavy-duty rim, and OP are lightweight.

I and several others have found that OP are a bit too lightweight for high mileage riding (unless you like replacing your rims frequently).

I have a Chrina on my bike and my only complaint about it is that it is a very big rim and fitting some tyres can be extremely difficult. Continental and Schwalbe are difficult to fit.

[Ham]

I wouldn't worry about longevity of any decent hub if you service them regularly - in a winter I chewed through three chains/casettes + 1 BB on my similar legnth cross-London commute, the hub has remained a-ok. Stands to reason to me, as I would have said it is that much more protected than almost any other component (except the steerer, maybe) and the rotational forces would tend to throw crap out.

[spenceey]

You can't really compare Chrina and mavic OP. Chrina are a heavy-duty rim, and OP are lightweight.

I and several others have found that OP are a bit too lightweight for high mileage riding (unless you like replacing your rims frequently).

I have a Chrina on my bike and my only complaint about it is that it is a very big rim and fitting some tyres can be extremely difficult. Continental and Schwalbe are difficult to fit.

But I was under the impression that Chrina are a cheaper alternative (albeit heavier) version of OP's? I'll be riding with conti gatorskins 25mm most of the time, will this be a problem?

Does Ultegra sound like the best option? Rather than saving money and going for a 105 build on Chrina/ Open pro?

I just guess I'm stuck whether to go for Open pros or Chrina.

[spenceey]

I've looked at hope hubs (which I was pretty sold on) until I heard that damn hub noise!

As i started to read your post I was thinking Hope !
Personally I love the noise of the Hope hubs, especially now they have quietened down a bit after a 100 miles or so.
Plus points for me are:
audible warning for errant peds
remind me to keep pedalling
IMO they roll a lot better than the Shimano 105 hubbed wheels I had before (with OP rims)
My Hopes are built in to Ambrosio Excellence rims which are worth a look too, or if you can stretch to it DT Swiss RR465.

I'd echo Tewdric's comments about home-built wheels using Roger Musson's book as a guide.  I won't ride anything else now.

From watching the you tube videos of hope hubs they sound as though they make a lot of noise.

With regards to building my own I won't be doing it with this wheel set (I'm currently in the stages of moving house so don't really have the time plus spending a lot of money I worry about my quality of wheels I'd produce.

[gordon taylor]

I have Hope hubs and have never actually noticed the noise. Oops!

IMHO, they are fabulous and have a colossal advantage over the Shimano hubs because they have sealed bearings instead of cup and cone. The latter require so much faffing about that I just CBA.

I'd go Hope and OP for fast and reliable wheels.

[spenceey]

I almost went for the Hope build on OP but the noise put me off. That and the fact I'd read a few horror stories about Mavic OP splitting. Not something I can deal with when I'm using 1 bike for everything.

[vorsprung]

Chrinas are very much like Open Pros, (both have 15mm internal width) just a little heavier.  They are heavier in a good way and seem to be a bit more durable.
Open Pros are good but sometimes they crack around the nipples. I have had this happen to me.

I have had bad experiences with Ambrosio hubs, I've had two sets of them and both were endless sources of toil and pain.  I think they have a design flaw.

Hope Hubs are fabulous.  I have one on my best bike.  They are probably 150% the price of a Shimano hub though

[Biggsy]

I got into Open Pros when they were inexpensive.  One dealer at one time was even selling them for £15 each, with free postage.  The weight to price ratio was fantastic.

You're unlikely to have a horrible experience with an Open Pro (remember that people are more motivated to post about bad rather than good experiences), but yes you should do better with an alternative make, in terms of ease-of-building and longetivity.  I would miss having it so easy to fit and remove tyres, though.

I agree that any big-name hubs will be ok if serviced regularly and adjusted properly - though not all hubs can be serviced or adjusted at all, apart from changing the cartridge bearings (which may be easy or hard, depending on the model).

Go for 36 spokes at the back (at least), unless a particular 32h option happens to be a lot easier or cheaper to get hold of - otherwise there is extremely little disadvantage.  32 versus 36 spokes.

[spenceey]

So the Chrina sound like a winner then. Don't get me wrong if this was a summer or fair weather (are they the same thing?) bike I would have jumped at having open pros. But I need them to be hard wearing and relatively light weight.

Ultegra also sound like the hubs to go for as there isn't much in price between them and 105, so the weight saving will come from the hubs. Are Ultegra as easy to look after as 105 though?

I've got Shimano 2200 hubs on Alex R450 on my bike at the moment so whatever I buy is going to be an improvement!

[Bledlow]

You can't really compare Chrina and mavic OP. Chrina are a heavy-duty rim, and OP are lightweight.

I and several others have found that OP are a bit too lightweight for high mileage riding (unless you like replacing your rims frequently).

I have a Chrina on my bike and my only complaint about it is that it is a very big rim and fitting some tyres can be extremely difficult. Continental and Schwalbe are difficult to fit.

Chrina is given by Spa as 510g, Open Pro quoted elsewhere as 435g, so yes, a significant difference.

That's useful information about tyre fitting. I wish ease of fitting comparisons between rims & tyres were more generally available.

[Biggsy]

I wish ease of fitting comparisons between rims & tyres were more generally available.

We started to try...  http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=53372.0

[zigzag]

i've asked on this forum before about quiet good quality hubs, but it appears there aren't any, except shimano which are half decent. if i were you and needed a single all-rounder bike, i'd try to have it setup with disc brakes (maybe roadified cx bike?).

[spenceey]

It's hard to believe that 75g difference per rim is going to change a lot isn't it? Or should I be looking at something like the velocity A23 rim?

[Biggsy]

It's hard to believe that 75g difference per rim is going to change a lot isn't it?

Yes.  I don't believe it.  I like lightweight components, and that's why I chose Open Pros, but I don't kid myself that I'd really be worse off with +75g rims.

By the way, quoted rim weights are just nominal.  Actual weight varies according to the state of the dye at the time of extrusion.

[mrcharly-YHT]

You can't really compare Chrina and mavic OP. Chrina are a heavy-duty rim, and OP are lightweight.

I and several others have found that OP are a bit too lightweight for high mileage riding (unless you like replacing your rims frequently).

I have a Chrina on my bike and my only complaint about it is that it is a very big rim and fitting some tyres can be extremely difficult. Continental and Schwalbe are difficult to fit.

Chrina is given by Spa as 510g, Open Pro quoted elsewhere as 435g, so yes, a significant difference.

That's useful information about tyre fitting. I wish ease of fitting comparisons between rims & tyres were more generally available.

Well, SJS have the Chrina at 13mm internal (and it does look narrow). They also list the weight as 590gm.

590 vs 435 is quite a big difference. I used a Chrina to replace an OP wheel and the rim did feel (in the hand) substantially heavier than the OP.

It will depend quite a lot on the number of drillings. The Chrina is double-eyeletted, so a 36 hole will be heavier (by a bit) than 32 hole.

[spenceey]

If it weighs in at 590 that is quite a big difference. Back to the drawing board I don't think an Open Pro rim would suit me riding it all year around in all weathers.

My other option looks like the Velocity A23 rim (with 25mm gatorskins) and Ultegra hubs. What do you think?

[Somnolent]

That Velocity rim looks interesting.  No experience of it though.
Ambrosio Excellence look a little chunkier than OP and quoted as 460g.   http://www.samcycling.com/ can get 36h for you if struggling to find elsewhere.

Rim weight (rotating weight) counts more than hub weight though...so I keep being tempted by IRD Cadence...sub 400g !
 

[Euan Uzami]

Spence,
I have open pro on hope, and while I do hate to say it I have come to the conclusion that the seals on them leave something to be desired.
They are good hubs however and they are fairly easily self serviceable.
I did like the noise until I experienced the complete silent freewheeling of my gym bike. Now I'm not so enamoured. Oh well. You can quiet it down by adding grease.
If (when) I were to get new wheels I would probably go for chrina on ultegra from spa. shimano apparently have much better seals.

[spenceey]

I am leaning more towards the chrina build but the weight issue is a little off putting. The velocity a23 are 23mm wide which is wider than both the open pro and chrina but as light as the open pro. Built up on a ultegra 32 hub these should be pretty strong. If the build for them comes in at under 250-300 I'm on to a winner. If not I'm sure ill be going with the chrinas just hearing different quotes       on the weights has put me off a little.

[vorsprung]

The velocity a23 are 23mm wide which is wider than both the open pro and chrina

The a23 has an external width of 23mm.  All other rim makers give the internal width.  If it really did have an internal width of 23mm you'd have to fit quite wide tyres

This stuff about the weight is a bit of a red herring if your real aim is to do all year riding and audaxes.  If the wheel is lighter it will wear out quicker