Pedestrian killed by cyclist

[audaxer]

Or self-defence, if he thought he was about to be set upon by a gang.

He was (apparently) riding toward them at 20mph. How can that be "about to be set upon"?

[Jaded]

I sorry, but I don't perceive this as being anything other than a tragic accident. The cyclist didn't kill the girl. He made a decision, however, that contributed to her death.

Hang on a sec.  He rode into her.  She sustained injuries.  She died from those injuries.

What part of "he didn't kill her" am I missing here?

Two cars collide. One of the drivers is fatally injured. Did the other driver kill him?

(On a more relevant note, the inquest returned an accidental death verdict.)

He shouted "move because I'm not stopping".

He hit her, and killed her.

Manslaughter in my books - he sounds like a cnut; just happens he was armed with a bike, not a hammer.

Or did he shout "move! I can't stop!"

Witnesses sometimes see knives when there were guns.

[Pete]

Incidentally, the father's comments to the press indicate the typical sneering motorist's view of cyclists.  I've been called a "little boy" before by a fat slob in a car, when I was 22 years old and probably taller than him.

I used to get a lot of sneers when I was a student.  More recently, I was cycling towards a white van parked by the roadside.  Two men were manhandling a large wardrobe across the road, so I waited for them to get clear, then rode past.  As I did so one of the men said to the other "watch out, there's a nutter on a bike".  To my shame I did not respond, I just totally blanked them and rode on.  Sums up some attitudes.

As far as this man's attitude, and his alleged character, are concerned: true they have no bearing on the cyclist's case.  But they do have bearing on the fact that he was given access to the media to air his vile spiteful comments following the trial.  The law is the law, penalties are set down by statute, and it is no man's place, however aggrieved, to play at vigilante.

[gonzo]

As an aside, it wasn't the bike that killed the ped, it was the pavement that did that when she fell over. The difference between this and a car is that a car actually does the killing.

What would be said if someone ran into her and knocked her over?

Interesting comment on the girl's father here ... Death cyclist fine angers family - Page 5

What really interests me on that forum is this line:
Death cyclist fine angers family

Despite its cost, the court heard it did not comply with the Highway Code because it had no reflectors on the pedals or on the back.

How many of us do?

[Julian]

I hit a pedestrian earlier today, but fortunately didn't kill him.

[Wowbagger]

I hit a pedestrian earlier today, but fortunately didn't kill him.

Did you stop?

[Pete]

My father, sadly, struck and killed a pedestrian with his car.  It was in the late 1940s, before I was born, when there were of course far fewer cars around.  I don't know all the details, but the pedestrian was obviously drunk and carrying an open cider bottle, and apparently just lurched into the road.  The police didn't even bring charges against my father, though relatives of the victim did get hold of his address and sent hate mail.  Nothing to do with this case, but just goes to show: these things happen.

[LindaG]

Reading this case makes my blood run cold.  It could so easily have happened to me the other week.  

Riding along the cyclepath on the way to a night shift (red cyclepath on one side, grey footpath on the other with a white line in the middle).  Three teenage girls coming the other way.  I probably wasn't paying enough attention  = a bit on autopilot tbh.  

I was doing about 18mph, slowing down as I was approaching some bollards.  For some reason one of the girls meandered out onto the cycle path, straight in front of me.  I had time to slow down, but didn't, thinking she'd get out of the way.

She didn't.

I swerved on to the grass verge, shouting 'Look out!' at the same time.

The girls made alarmed sounding noises, as I cycled off to work behind them.

I've since reflected that it was my fault - I should've slowed down, and will do in future.   Teenagers are a bit woolly between the ears, what with hormones and EMO and not being allowed out to learn road safety, and cider, and stuff.  They can't help it.  At the same time, if any harm had come to her, well, I can hardly bear to think about it.  

Had the teenagers been the aggressive bottle waving knife wielding variety I'd have been daft to slow down.

But it would have been accidental, had I hit her.  Was I being negligent?  Possibly.  

I find it necessary to be in an assertive frame of mind when cycle commuting - to take the lane, ride through fast roundabouts, endure verbal abuse, makes it necessary.  Rational decision-making is easy with hindsight; in real life there are only split seconds to make a choice.

Sorry.  Randomly mumbling there.

That poor girl, and her poor mum and dad.  So sad.

Be careful out there folks.

[nuttycyclist]

BBC NEWS | England | Beds/Bucks/Herts | Death cyclist fine angers family

Note this is still 2.2 times the fine received by the van driver who killed Andrew Rawlings on the Dun Run.  He was driving on the wrong side of the road, tried to leave the scene and according to those who dragged him from the cab, had been drinking (although he was within the legal limit).

Can anybody remind me the sentence given Andrew's killer?   I've been googling and turning up nothing.

[Maladict]

As an aside, it wasn't the bike that killed the ped, it was the pavement that did that when she fell over. The difference between this and a car is that a car actually does the killing.

What would be said if someone ran into her and knocked her over?

Interesting comment on the girl's father here ... Death cyclist fine angers family - Page 5

What really interests me on that forum is this line:
Death cyclist fine angers family

Despite its cost, the court heard it did not comply with the Highway Code because it had no reflectors on the pedals or on the back.

How many of us do?

Birdy: has pedal and rear reflectors.
Galaxy: has pedal and rear reflectors.
Yukon: has pedal and rear reflectors.
Madone: has rear reflectors, but lacks pedal reflectors.

Of course it's entirely irrelevant to the case as it was a frontal collision and reflectors only show up in headlights, not to peds.

[rogerzilla]

Can anybody remind me the sentence given Andrew's killer?   I've been googling and turning up nothing.

£1000 and a one-year ban, which of course isn't possible for a cyclist.

[fuzzy]

The description of Jason Howards bike casts a different light on MY perception of him as a cyclist- rightly or wrongly. It is described as a carbon fibre titanium bike, built to his specification. Taking into account the current press accuracy, this probably describes a ti frame with carbon fibre forks and kitted out how he wants it. To me, this indicates a rider other than that sometimes known as a 'pob' or a chav on a supermarket full susser.

This also indicates to me that he MAY have had fears as to what was going on immediatly prior to the collision.

Speculation on my part and perhaps a bit of red herring work?

[rogerzilla]

Does anyone have a copy of Richard's Bicycle Book to see if it really does contain the advice to charge when threatened by a group of pedestrians?  I'm sure it did in my old copy, but it's gone walkabout.

If he'd been in a car he'd have got off scot-free, I reckon. Victim having drunk two cans of strong lager, under legal drinking age, probably out of control and in the roadway.  Nothing I could have done, Your Honour, she just stepped out.

[Wendy]

Fuzzy, sometimes the expensive bike serious cyclist can be the worst of all for arrogant get out of my way behaviour, as seen in Hyde Park regularly.  I've no idea what happened in this specific case of course, and I can see potential for both extremes of the debate, from scary yobbish teenagers to bad arrogant careless cyclist.

[PhilO]

If he'd been in a car he'd have got off scot-free, I reckon. Victim having drunk two cans of strong lager, under legal drinking age, probably out of control and in the roadway.  Nothing I could have done, Your Honour, she just stepped out.

Which could be true, of course, a car being much wider than a bike and less maneouvrable.  

And reflectors are only required after dark - what time of day did this happen?

None of the above being remotely relevent to the case, of course... Time to move on, perhaps?

[Regulator]

I sorry, but I don't perceive this as being anything other than a tragic accident. The cyclist didn't kill the girl. He made a decision, however, that contributed to her death.

Hang on a sec.  He rode into her.  She sustained injuries.  She died from those injuries.

What part of "he didn't kill her" am I missing here?

Two cars collide. One of the drivers is fatally injured. Did the other driver kill him?

(On a more relevant note, the inquest returned an accidental death verdict.)

He shouted "move because I'm not stopping".

He hit her, and killed her.

Manslaughter in my books - he sounds like a cnut; just happens he was armed with a bike, not a hammer.

Or did he shout "move! I can't stop!"

Witnesses sometimes see knives when there were guns.

And it should be noted that conflicting statements were given to the police by the youths about what was said by the cyclist.  It appears that there was some confusion at first, which coalesced into a 'firmer recall' at a later date....

[Pete]

I cannot help thinking of the police officers who 'remembered' (and later bore sworn testimony) that Derek Bentley shouted "let him have it".

Which got him hanged. 

[fuzzy]

I cannot help thinking of the police officers who 'remembered' (and later bore sworn testimony) that Derek Bentley shouted "let him have it".

Which got him hanged. 

Perception problem there though- as was argued, it cold mean let him have the gun or shoot him. That could also be flavoured by how the witness recounts what was said in inflection and tone.

[Jaded]

Does anyone have a copy of Richard's Bicycle Book to see if it really does contain the advice to charge when threatened by a group of pedestrians?  I'm sure it did in my old copy, but it's gone walkabout.

©1979

[Gattopardo]

I cannot help thinking of the police officers who 'remembered' (and later bore sworn testimony) that Derek Bentley shouted "let him have it".

Which got him hanged. 

Perception problem there though- as was argued, it cold mean let him have the gun or shoot him. That could also be flavoured by how the witness recounts what was said in inflection and tone.

Very true, and hence why the years of appeals.

[Gattopardo]

Interesting comment on the girl's father here ... Death cyclist fine angers family - Page 5

Is it advisable to quote other forums?

[alexb]

Of course if the pedestrian had been wearing a helmet....

[Julian]

I hit a pedestrian earlier today, but fortunately didn't kill him.

Did you stop?

I didn't have much of an option.  My front wheel was parked neatly between his buttocks.

He sauntered out from between two parked cars without looking - and then appeared to think me shouting was just background noise.  I heaved on the brakes but it was too late.  He wasn't hurt; I wasn't hurt; the bike wasn't hurt, but I was a bit shaken (what if he had hit the deck and knocked his head?) and he's got a lovely black tyre-mark on his cream trousers to remind him of the Green Cross Code.

[Wowbagger]

I hit a pedestrian earlier today, but fortunately didn't kill him.

Did you stop?

I didn't have much of an option.  My front wheel was parked neatly between his buttocks.

He sauntered out from between two parked cars without looking - and then appeared to think me shouting was just background noise.  I heaved on the brakes but it was too late.  He wasn't hurt; I wasn't hurt; the bike wasn't hurt, but I was a bit shaken (what if he had hit the deck and knocked his head?) and he's got a lovely black tyre-mark on his cream trousers to remind him of the Green Cross Code.

I hit a pedestrian once, a long time ago.

I was cycling down Holborn en route from Euston to Lpoo St. We had been to see Jan's parents and it must have been early '80s because we had only two kids and no car. Jan took the little'uns on the tube, I took the luggage on my bike. Ergo heavily laden.

Suddenly a drunk staggered off the pavement into my path. I couldn't avoid him - I was doing about 20 mph at the time - but my shoulder caught him a glancing blow and over he went. I hardly wobbled - I saw him coming and dipped my shoulder as if about to be rugby-tackled. I slowed down and looked back, but he was with a load of his mates, seemed to be OK and I thought discretion was the better part of valour and buggered off. What was uppermost in my mind was that Jan would get to Lpoo St and have no idea where I was. Not wanting to get involved with a bunch of piss-heads was also a major consideration.

[mattc]

Of course if the pedestrian had been wearing a helmet....

Look! There's an elephant in here - hasn't anyone else noticed it?!?