Author Topic: Science that makes you cringe  (Read 54527 times)

ian

Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #275 on: 15 June, 2022, 04:26:34 pm »
This is where we are now:

  • Little Timmy gets eaten by a lion a month or three after getting his covid jab: the jab made it happen
  • Little Timmy gets eaten by a lion a month or three after getting covid: covid made it happen

Any erm on that, and you are a COVID MINIMIZER, which basically means you're a child-maiming eugenicist. Everyone needs a hobby.

Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #276 on: 15 June, 2022, 04:42:13 pm »
This is where we are now:

  • Little Timmy gets eaten by a lion a month or three after getting his covid jab: the jab made it happen
  • Little Timmy gets eaten by a lion a month or three after getting covid: covid made it happen

Whereas in reality, it had knack-all to do with either the jab or the dread lurgi, and it was little Timmy poking said lion with a stick* that made it happen. :demon:


* 'orse's 'ead 'andle optional.
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

Kim

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Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #277 on: 15 June, 2022, 06:58:32 pm »
Nahh, lions are lazy bastards.  They're only going to eat little Timmy if they haven't been fed enough.

ElyDave

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Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #278 on: 15 June, 2022, 07:54:38 pm »
Nahh, lions are lazy bastards.  They're only going to eat little Timmy if they haven't been fed enough.

Or if the covid vaccine made him taste of gravy
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #279 on: 27 June, 2022, 08:51:56 pm »
Nahh, lions are lazy bastards.  They're only going to eat little Timmy if they haven't been fed enough. the lionesses have caught him.
FTFY
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rogerzilla

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Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #280 on: 25 August, 2022, 03:51:39 pm »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-62672964

Quote
"We've had no support here from the government at all," said Ms Lovegrove.

"We will provide the heating for the children, we will just ask parents to put an extra layer in the children's bags so we don't need to have the heating on for the entire day."

She said that as the weather gets colder DaisyChain nursery in Weston-super-Mare will warm the building before children arrive but then only put it on for 10 to 20 minutes every hour to keep it at an ambient 20 degrees, rather than the usual 21 or 22 degrees.

Just turn the thermostat down to 20, Ms Lovegrove  :facepalm:  Unless there is no thermostat, in which case they are about £20 and easy to fit.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Kim

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Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #281 on: 25 August, 2022, 05:41:21 pm »
I saw that and thought that it's ether someone with all the SCIENCE education of a typical primary teacher, or they're using those paraffin heaters from ian's youth.

Out of morbid curiosity, I poked around on Google, and discovered that the nursery in question does appear to be based in one of those portacabins from ian's youth, and for extra irony, the heating appears to be via a split-unit air conditioner (which Shirley has a thermostat), short-circuited by some generous air vents.  Heat pumps ftw!

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #282 on: 25 August, 2022, 07:30:02 pm »
When I'm in power, one of the things taught in schools, along with reading and writing will be thermostats. Lesson 2 will be "turning the thermostat up doesn't make the room heat quicker."
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citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #283 on: 25 August, 2022, 09:23:00 pm »
When I'm in power, one of the things taught in schools, along with reading and writing will be thermostats. Lesson 2 will be "turning the thermostat up doesn't make the room heat quicker."

Can I pre-book a place on that course for my wife, please?
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Kim

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Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #284 on: 25 August, 2022, 09:56:37 pm »
Call it 'cybernetics' and people might even pay attention.

Basil

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Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #285 on: 25 August, 2022, 10:03:16 pm »
When I'm in power, one of the things taught in schools, along with reading and writing will be thermostats. Lesson 2 will be "turning the thermostat up doesn't make the room heat quicker."

Can I pre-book a place on that course for my wife, please?

See also The Oven.  I tried and tried to explain to Mrs B that turning the oven to 240 won't get it to 180 any quicker.
Admission.  I'm actually not that fussed about cake.

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #286 on: 25 August, 2022, 10:52:38 pm »
When I'm in power, one of the things taught in schools, along with reading and writing will be thermostats. Lesson 2 will be "turning the thermostat up doesn't make the room heat quicker."

Can I pre-book a place on that course for my wife, please?

See also The Oven.  I tried and tried to explain to Mrs B that turning the oven to 240 won't get it to 180 any quicker.

It depends on the control algorithm, other than limits on max power. Proportional-integral control, IIRC from undedgrad days would get it there quicker, proportional only would also get it there quicker. Just ON would not.
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Kim

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Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #287 on: 25 August, 2022, 11:05:58 pm »
Yes, I've long thought that by the time people finally get the message about thermostats, thermostats will no longer be simple thermostats.

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #288 on: 25 August, 2022, 11:13:35 pm »
Yes, I've long thought that by the time people finally get the message about thermostats, thermostats will no longer be simple thermostats.
All that was in the back of my mind when I put forward my proposal up there and was thinking how to word it.  But then my attention wandered to a glass of Rioja.
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #289 on: 26 August, 2022, 08:07:53 am »
Doesn't it also depend how you're using the heating? An oven you're almost always using from cold, so it makes no difference. But if you turn your heating on and off more frequently than the time it takes to return to ambient, than it's starting from a slightly higher temp if you last had it at 21 rather than 20. Whether it's a noticeable difference is another question.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #290 on: 26 August, 2022, 08:27:29 am »
Doesn't it also depend how you're using the heating? An oven you're almost always using from cold, so it makes no difference. But if you turn your heating on and off more frequently than the time it takes to return to ambient, than it's starting from a slightly higher temp if you last had it at 21 rather than 20. Whether it's a noticeable difference is another question.

Not sure what you mean.

There are two temperature settings for central heating; circulating water temperature and target room temperature.

If the room is below the target temperature, the thermostat 'calls for heat'. That starts the water circulation pump running. If the water temp in the boiler is below the circulating water temperature, the boiler will fire, and continue to fire until either:
  • Circulating water temperature reaches target (measured on return to boiler)
  • Room temperature reaches target

If it is the second, the circulation pump will also stop running.

If your radiators are undersized for your boiler, the boiler will cycle on an off frequently (which is bad for the boiler).

Setting the room thermostat to a higher temperature has no effect how long it takes to get to temperature.

Setting individual radiator thermostatic valves to the maximum WILL heat up the rooms faster. There is a case for having all radiators open to full in rooms that are frequently used. Put thermostat in a hallway or something, set the temp lowish (for your standards), and open rad valves right up in the living room, kitchen.  The living room and kitchen will get toasty warm, the rest of the house tolerable.
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Giraffe

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Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #291 on: 26 August, 2022, 04:40:07 pm »
My 4-month-old boiler, on the same room 'stat as the old boiler was, starts modulating when Return reaches the level set on the 'stat in the boiler. Instaed of cutting on and off it just keeps going until the room 'stat switches. The temperature rises far quicker than it used to and, because Flow is set to 50C instead of 70C, there's far less overshoot.
I don't yet know about comparative usage as, for some reason, the heating hasn't been on for almost all of the four months.
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Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #292 on: 26 August, 2022, 04:56:15 pm »
If you have a mechanical thermostat, turning it from 20 to 21 might not be enough to flip the bimetallic strip straight away, whereas turning it to 24 would flip it immediately. Ergo turning it up higher heats the room quicker.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #293 on: 26 August, 2022, 05:27:13 pm »
If you have a mechanical thermostat, turning it from 20 to 21 might not be enough to flip the bimetallic strip straight away, whereas turning it to 24 would flip it immediately. Ergo turning it up higher heats the room quicker.

I admit I don't know much about domestic thermostats but surely a whole degree C is quite a big margin? Sounds like you need a more sensitive thermostat.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Tim Hall

  • Victoria is my queen
Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #294 on: 26 August, 2022, 06:04:49 pm »
Lesson 3. Hysterisis.
There are two ways you can get exercise out of a bicycle: you can
"overhaul" it, or you can ride it.  (Jerome K Jerome)

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #295 on: 26 August, 2022, 07:04:16 pm »
Setting the room thermostat to a higher temperature has no effect how long it takes to get to temperature.

Setting individual radiator thermostatic valves to the maximum WILL heat up the rooms faster. There is a case for having all radiators open to full in rooms that are frequently used. Put thermostat in a hallway or something, set the temp lowish (for your standards), and open rad valves right up in the living room, kitchen.  The living room and kitchen will get toasty warm, the rest of the house tolerable.


On the first point, is that still true in this era of smart modulating boilers?
My boiler controller talks to the internet to find out what the outside temp is, and is supposed to learn how long our home takes to get up to temperature, so it surely should be modulating the flow temp to meet the required diff T?

On the 2nd point, I don't get that. My method is to have the stat in the room I want to be warmest (i.e. the lounge) with the rad valve fully open and turn the valves down anywhere I want cooler. (They always say the valve should be fully open where the stat is),
Of course when we had the wood burning stove in the lounge at the last place I moved the stat to the bedroom. (My brother complains the rest of his house is freezing when his stat is in the lounge next to the stove)
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #296 on: 26 August, 2022, 08:16:26 pm »
Most smart thermostats still only communicate with the boiler by shorting (or not) a pair of contacts to indicate the boiler should switch on.

Mr Larrington

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Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #297 on: 26 August, 2022, 11:17:25 pm »
IRTA "shouting" and thought "Ah, that's why my heating makes such a bleedin' racket sometimes".
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Re: Science that makes you cringe
« Reply #298 on: 31 August, 2022, 02:31:28 pm »
Setting the room thermostat to a higher temperature has no effect how long it takes to get to temperature.

Setting individual radiator thermostatic valves to the maximum WILL heat up the rooms faster. There is a case for having all radiators open to full in rooms that are frequently used. Put thermostat in a hallway or something, set the temp lowish (for your standards), and open rad valves right up in the living room, kitchen.  The living room and kitchen will get toasty warm, the rest of the house tolerable.


On the first point, is that still true in this era of smart modulating boilers?
My boiler controller talks to the internet to find out what the outside temp is, and is supposed to learn how long our home takes to get up to temperature, so it surely should be modulating the flow temp to meet the required diff T?

On the 2nd point, I don't get that. My method is to have the stat in the room I want to be warmest (i.e. the lounge) with the rad valve fully open and turn the valves down anywhere I want cooler. (They always say the valve should be fully open where the stat is),
Of course when we had the wood burning stove in the lounge at the last place I moved the stat to the bedroom. (My brother complains the rest of his house is freezing when his stat is in the lounge next to the stove)
If you have rooms with rad valves cranked down, and the stat is in your 'warm' room, I'd say there is a fair possibility of getting cold damp areas in your house. Depends on the temp gradient in the house.
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Pingu

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