Author Topic: Home energy saving tips /ideas...  (Read 98738 times)

Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #300 on: 08 December, 2021, 02:23:23 pm »
Quote
You don't have to have a membrane on top and it can be done from below the floor.
I disagree, and so do the experts.
You may not be concerned about reducing the effectiveness of the insulation by allowing air leakage, but you may be concerned if your joists rot. Of course mostly you will get away with it, but why bother with half a job?
I consulted with the firm that sold the insulation.

To get the vapour barrier to work, your insulation installation must guarantee that the dew point is below the insulation.

Any 'cold spots' in the insulation and you will get condensation held against the timbers.

I went the other route, ensuring that the insulation and the membrane were permeable.

Since you are using an impermeable insulation, yes, I think you need the vapour barrier above the insulation. Better get the installation perfect though (my research suggested that applying foam between the kingspan and the timbers was the only certain method).
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Mrs Pingu

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Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #301 on: 08 December, 2021, 05:52:19 pm »
Carpets with cats? Insanity. Thus says the man whose first act this morning was cleaning cat sick off the guest room carpet. I wish we'd had wood upstairs too.

This is why we had a biscuit coloured carpet in the old place. It hid a multitude of sins. Having said that Pippin used to vomit at least once a day, whereas this pair hardly ever do. Plus wood floor is evil for your neighbours.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

ian

Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #302 on: 08 December, 2021, 06:01:34 pm »
We ain't got no neighbours, one of the benefits of detached house. I wish we'd had wood upstairs so I didn't have to periodically slave away with Dr Beckman's carpet cleaner (my wife, I'm sure, does a deliberately bad job).

Feanor

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Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #303 on: 08 December, 2021, 06:30:05 pm »
Problem with wooden flooring in a bedroom is low coefficient of friction.

If one were to have, say, a Lazy Sunday Morning, by the time you eventually get up you might find the bedroom furniture has re-arranged itself.

Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #304 on: 08 December, 2021, 06:43:38 pm »
Plus wood floor is evil for your neighbours*.
Well, I (like the look) and don't care, cos they* always slam their front door (and it makes a
hell of a racket). I think that is a problem with older terraced houses that don't have cavity walls.

ian

Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #305 on: 08 December, 2021, 07:48:29 pm »
Problem with wooden flooring in a bedroom is low coefficient of friction.

If one were to have, say, a Lazy Sunday Morning, by the time you eventually get up you might find the bedroom furniture has re-arranged itself.

You can get little grips for the feet of your furniture that stop it sliding.

They don't stop you from getting interrupted by cats though, and really there are times when you don't want a cat to leap onto your back, and that's one of them. Felix interruptus. No dear, you go on top, I insist.

FifeingEejit

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Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #306 on: 08 December, 2021, 08:28:47 pm »
Don't need a thring as strenuous as a "lazy Sunday" as I once discovered in a galashiels Airbnb, went to sleep with my head against the wall woke up 3hrs later with my feet at the wall.

That said, I am known in my hiking club for being a total pain the the arse on alpine bunks and floors for moving around.

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Mrs Pingu

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Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #307 on: 10 December, 2021, 06:32:30 pm »
Well today's fun was finding mould in the bottom of the larder/pantry. Not really a surprise TBH.
This was obviously built in before fridges were common place and judging by the difference in distance to the wall inside and outside the larder it's probably plastered directly onto the inner leaf of the cavity wall. So it's facking freezing in there, so condensation forms on the walls. Not helped by the previous owner painting them in silk finish in there.
Anyway while I was having a bit of a clean tonight I found mould growing on the wall in the bottom. As I say not a big surprise but annoying nonetheless, especially now we have an extracting cooker hood..
So now I need to GAMI to rip the larder out and put up an insulated stud wall there, as well as all the other insulating guff I'm still waiting for responses on.

Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

SoreTween

  • Most of me survived the Pennine Bridleway.
Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #308 on: 10 December, 2021, 07:10:55 pm »
I know you are now monitoring h&t in a couple of rooms but I hope you are also monitoring your energy consumption more generally. This so that you can bask in the glow of all the hassle worthwhile somewhere down the line. Getting people in is no less strife and effort.

When we moved in here I spent considerable time and backache insulating our loft. It went from from 4" compressed to near useless by years of traffic to 8 or 10" uncompressible under a stilted floor.  I occasionally look back at the before/after temperature differential graphs to remind myself why.  We've never used as much oil as we did that first winter.

OTOH maybe it's just me.  I can't do anything without agonising how to instrument it to verify the results.
2023 targets: Survive. Maybe.
There is only one infinite resource in this universe; human stupidity.

FifeingEejit

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Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #309 on: 10 December, 2021, 07:17:51 pm »
If you don't measure the results what's the point in doing it?

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Mrs Pingu

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Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #310 on: 10 December, 2021, 08:04:05 pm »
Indeed. When we moved I did go back through the previous years worth of bills noting it all down in my app (what a ball ache that was) and now doing the same here.

Sent some more nagging emails to insulating companies tonight.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #311 on: 13 December, 2021, 09:55:13 pm »
Well one of the companies I nagged on Sat night got back with a 'sod off we're too busy in the West to come up to Furrybootoon'. This is what happens when you have an accredited installer directory that is concentrated in the central belt.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #312 on: 11 January, 2022, 09:11:45 pm »
Finally got a call from an installer up in Banff today who gave me a survey appointment on Thursday.
They then followed up with an email saying actually they can't progress for ne at the moment as we're not on benefits.
Wonder if they have a load of grant money they're expected to use up by the end of the financial year.

Pain in the arse though, all very well encouraging you to be energy efficient if you can't find anyone to do the work.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #313 on: 15 January, 2022, 03:24:43 pm »
On Thursday my friendly plumber came and removed the stupid thermostat in the hall and installed a Drayton Wiser smart heating hub and thermostat. So we've now got weather compensation and I can turn the heating up from the comfort of my poang, which is handy when you've got a cat on your lap.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #314 on: 17 January, 2022, 05:53:40 pm »
You could consider applying a layer of Wallrock insulation liner or similar for the mould problem, if you cant get anyone to dryline.
Get a bicycle. You will never regret it, if you live- Mark Twain

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #315 on: 17 January, 2022, 06:04:48 pm »
You could consider applying a layer of Wallrock insulation liner or similar for the mould problem, if you cant get anyone to dryline.

Hmm, I did actually wonder about lining it with cork liner a while back but I was worried I would just be covering up the condensation. It's been a lot better in there since I took all the shoes out of the bottom of the cupboard and the longer we've had the extractor but more help wouldn't be a bad thing.
<goes off to read up on U values...
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

rogerzilla

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Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #316 on: 03 February, 2022, 07:45:02 am »
I did some more reading on air source heat pumps.  Basically, expect a 50% increase in bills if you currently heat your house 24/7 with gas.  If, like most people, you don't currently heat it when you're out or asleep (I need a COLD bedroom), expect bills to more than double, because an ASHP really needs to be on at a constant low level; it can't heat a house quickly from cold and it is grossly inefficient if you try to make it do so.  So overall kWh use is much higher too.

You'll also need to use resistance heating, at ruinous cost, for your hot water and the inevitable top-ups when the outdoor temperature drops quickly.  They are absolutely hopeless.

I am going to move somewhere that I can have a GSHP and a wood burner.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #317 on: 03 February, 2022, 08:53:27 am »
Having had an air source heat pump supplying all my heating and hot water needs, except for the occasional log fire for visual pleasure, for the last 8 years, I would have a different view on some of what you say.

If you want a cold bedroom, then the best way is to use TRVs on the radiators, set the bedroom to a much lower temperature and keep the door shut.  That goes whether you heat with oil, gas or heat pump.

Any reading that says expect an X% increase in bills without defining your current usage and housing type / situation is useless as any increase %age will be dependent on your previous use.  I live in a bungalow with converted rooms in the roof, 4 bed.  It was heated by an oil combi boiler supplemented by a wood burner burning about 3 cubic metres of logs a year although I had a free source for the logs so the value of them in these calls is zero.  Cooking was all electric.  I worked from home so heated parts of the house all day.  My overall fuel costs, everything else staying the same, went down by about £200 a year on installing the heat pump.  Savings v gas would be lower (or wiped out) as gas is (was) cheaper to use than oil but I didn’t have that option.  At the time I also benefitted from a substantial incentive payment that increased my savings but as that is no longer available I won’t include that in the figures. I also burn less logs, only really using the log burner now for visual pleasure.

Yes, my electric consumption went up but it was offset by the fact I didn’t need to buy in oil.  Yes, the way to run the system is different to how you would run a traditional boiler. No you don’t need to run resistance heating for hot water at ruinous costs.  I get plenty of usable hot water even in the depths of winter.  Only if all 4 of the family want a bath before going out for the evening do I need to run the immersion and that’s because I don’t have a large enough hot water cylinder. I have insulated my house well but then that is sensible in my book however I heat the house. Yes, the install is more expensive than a gas boiler though again that depends on your existing set up.  Mine was v expensive but partly because I took the opportunity whilst disrupting the house to undertake a number of other changes to the plumbing runs / hardware etc and they all came in the one bill.

Overall, I am happy with my ashy.


rogerzilla

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Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #318 on: 03 February, 2022, 09:00:17 am »
This tale is scary - someone who switched from oil and is now finding the ASHP very expensive.

https://myhomefarm.co.uk/potential-air-source-heat-pump-running-cost-issue

There are two things going on here: an ASHP struggles when it's cold outside (which is when you need the heating most) and the price of electricity rising due, ironically, to the cost of gas.

For a family already struggling to pay the cost of running a gas boiler, ASHPs are potentially disastrous.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #319 on: 03 February, 2022, 11:14:14 am »
This tale is scary - someone who switched from oil and is now finding the ASHP very expensive.

https://myhomefarm.co.uk/potential-air-source-heat-pump-running-cost-issue

There are two things going on here: an ASHP struggles when it's cold outside (which is when you need the heating most) and the price of electricity rising due, ironically, to the cost of gas.

For a family already struggling to pay the cost of running a gas boiler, ASHPs are potentially disastrous.

Quote
we were paying £250 a month in oil (at 50p per litre) to heat the house

What!
We live in a five bedroom, badly insulated house, with an inefficient Stanley boiler. Spend about £550 every 3 months.

Either they were maintaining a very high temperature in the house, or the insulation is almost nonexistent.

Either would make running an ASHP very expensive.

People who try to treat ASHP like gas or oil heating have problems. Their houses are cold.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #320 on: 03 February, 2022, 03:12:48 pm »

People who try to treat ASHP like gas or oil heating have problems. Their houses are cold.

More like, their houses are not of the appropriate design and construction to benefit from ASHP.
We are making a New World (Paul Nash, 1918)

FifeingEejit

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Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #321 on: 03 February, 2022, 03:33:23 pm »
2 assistances to the cost of resistance heating water Ali gside an AsHP stsrt "have you got a south facing roof"

Must get round to that...

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Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #322 on: 03 February, 2022, 05:03:51 pm »
I'm hoping that the double-glazed windows* I'll be getting soon will result in a much warmer
house, and me not needing to turn on the central heating as much.


* To be paid from my retirement lump sum.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #323 on: 03 February, 2022, 05:25:52 pm »
2 assistances to the cost of resistance heating water Ali gside an AsHP stsrt "have you got a south facing roof"

Must get round to that...

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Most people with a gas boiler and a hot water cylinder crank up the flow temperature, because heating water to the usual 60 deg C using 63 deg C boiler water is asymptotically slow.  Heat pumps are even worse.  Oh, and you can wave goodbye to combis.  Where do you put hot water storage in a newer house without an airing cupboard?
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Home energy saving tips /ideas...
« Reply #324 on: 03 February, 2022, 05:32:57 pm »
Reading a load of other articles on that site the writer comes across as a moaning tightwad.

I note how in the replies to that post it was about 50:50 positive:megative.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.