Author Topic: Home energy saving tips /ideas... (Read 99524 times)

FifeingEejit · « **Reply #325 on:** 03 February, 2022, 05:36:05 pm »

Quote from: rogerzilla on 03 February, 2022, 05:25:52 pm

Quote from: FifeingEejit on 03 February, 2022, 03:33:23 pm
2 assistances to the cost of resistance heating water Ali gside an AsHP stsrt "have you got a south facing roof"

Must get round to that...

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Most people with a gas boiler and a hot water cylinder crank up the flow temperature, because heating water to the usual 60 deg C using 63 deg C boiler water is asymptotically slow. Heat pumps are even worse. Oh, and you can wave goodbye to combis. Where do you put hot water storage in a newer house without an airing cupboard?

Roof space or eaves for the tank

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rogerzilla · « **Reply #326 on:** 03 February, 2022, 08:22:47 pm »

Nice try, but newer houses don't often have lofts (3 storey - ideal for an ageing population).

FifeingEejit · « **Reply #327 on:** 04 February, 2022, 01:10:44 am »

So room in roof?
Odd I lived in a room in roof conversion for years with a hot water tank at my feet and the header tank above my head all behind the plasterboard.

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JellyLegs · « **Reply #328 on:** 04 February, 2022, 08:32:05 am »

Quote from: rafletcher on 03 February, 2022, 03:12:48 pm

Quote from: mrcharly-YHT on 03 February, 2022, 11:14:14 am

People who try to treat ASHP like gas or oil heating have problems. Their houses are cold.

More like, their houses are not of the appropriate design and construction to benefit from ASHP.

Would I stick an ASHP in a 1500s timber framed house with lath and plaster walls? No. Would I stick one in a 1890s house with no insulation? No. Why? The first case isn’t likely to ever be suitable due to its construction. The second case is more because if it hasn’t been subject to basic insulation measures first then there will be a much quicker, much more effective payback by simply insulating the existing building properly. This was pointed out to me by my ASHP installer when they surveyed the property to work out potential locations etc for the gubbins. I was strongly advised to install another layer of loft insulation and do a few draught excluding works before installing the pump.

My place is a right mix of building styles due to being extended and reconfigured down the years. The original bungalow is 1930s solid brick wall with single skin (aka likely to be cold as anything) bay windows. There is a small extension with uninsulated cavity and an extension to the extension with badly insulated cavity (that’s builders for you!). 80% is suspended wooden floor, some is concrete floor, been in place since at least the 1950’s so probably uninsulated. Roof room put in in 2005 and well insulated. When I moved in I did redo the loft insulation and over time I have also insulated part of the suspended floor. The ASHP copes with heating this building. Even today at 24p per kw hr, the bill is nowhere near the figures quoted in the example above. Either that farmhouse is chuffing huge, in which case one heat pump won’t have enough capacity and will simply be being overworked which may explain some of the issues, or they leave the doors open 24/7. I run a fire station for one of my jobs, absolutely no insulation to speak of, heated by an oil boiler. The heating uses substantially less oil per week than that farm and they do literally leave big bay doors open on a regular basis. I really can’t work out what that farm were doing but clearly they are not a normal case on which to base decisions.

Mrs Pingu · « **Reply #329 on:** 04 February, 2022, 05:15:49 pm »

Having looked at their photos I think their farm house is chuffing huge. Even the bathroom they ripped out looked bigger than my lounge and there seems to be a lot of open plan looking shots else where.

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #330 on:** 04 February, 2022, 05:45:00 pm »

Quote from: Mrs Pingu on 04 February, 2022, 05:15:49 pm

Having looked at their photos I think their farm house is chuffing huge. Even the bathroom they ripped out looked bigger than my lounge and there seems to be a lot of open plan looking shots else where.

There is a reason why houses used to have small rooms.

Great sprawling spaces look lovely, but are hell to heat unless fantastic insulation.

quixoticgeek · « **Reply #331 on:** 04 February, 2022, 05:58:18 pm »

Quote from: mrcharly-YHT on 04 February, 2022, 05:45:00 pm

There is a reason why houses used to have small rooms.

Great sprawling spaces look lovely, but are hell to heat unless fantastic insulation.

Fantastic insulation has been a solved problem for decades. If designed into a building it's not that expensive, and has considerable return on investment.

But, that if is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

And retro fitting it to an existing envelope is really hard.

J

Mrs Pingu · « **Reply #332 on:** 09 February, 2022, 06:12:57 pm »

Today the doorbell rings:
Them: we're doing free boilers and underfloor insulation if your boiler is over 10 years old in your council area, you don't need to be on benefits.
Me: My boiler is only a year old but I've been beating my head off a brick wall trying to get insulation, can you do it?
Them: don't see why not, phone the office.
Me: <closes door, dances vigorously>
...
Phones their office.
No insulation unless you're getting a boiler as well.

FFS, what do I have to do?

Kim · « **Reply #333 on:** 09 February, 2022, 06:33:59 pm »

Quote from: Mrs Pingu on 09 February, 2022, 06:12:57 pm

FFS, what do I have to do?

Hide the boiler?

Mrs Pingu · « **Reply #334 on:** 04 March, 2022, 01:43:22 pm »

Quote from: Mrs Pingu on 09 February, 2022, 06:12:57 pm

Today the doorbell rings:
Them: we're doing free boilers and underfloor insulation if your boiler is over 10 years old in your council area, you don't need to be on benefits.
Me: My boiler is only a year old but I've been beating my head off a brick wall trying to get insulation, can you do it?
Them: don't see why not, phone the office.
Me: <closes door, dances vigorously>
...
Phones their office.
No insulation unless you're getting a boiler as well.

FFS, what do I have to do?

So I contacted this lot again online and asked if they would do insulation paid, to which they said yes. They are Green Deal certified which means I could apply for the Home Energy Scotland scheme. Phoned them today to book a survey and they said I might be able to get CWI funded, but didn't elaborate. They're coming next Weds so we'll see what they say...

FifeingEejit · « **Reply #335 on:** 04 March, 2022, 03:42:41 pm »

I'm slowly limbering up to looking Into getting panels, 5kwh is just over 5 grand, 4kwh just under and works out at around 30 or 50% of current usage, but of course to get full benefit of that I'd need a battery, which is currently beyond either the dosh I have left over (which is also my oh fuck fund) or the loan options.

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Mrs Pingu · « **Reply #336 on:** 04 March, 2022, 03:59:19 pm »

I'm hanging on to see if solar panels get subsidised. Plus I suppose it makes sense to get insulated first.

FifeingEejit · « **Reply #337 on:** 04 March, 2022, 04:18:50 pm »

Quote from: Mrs Pingu on 04 March, 2022, 03:59:19 pm

I'm hanging on to see if solar panels get subsidised. Plus I suppose it makes sense to get insulated first.

Yeah, I'm thankfully well insulated, possibly too well, which means the estimated doubling of gas price is manageable for now

orienteer · « **Reply #338 on:** 04 March, 2022, 05:08:44 pm »

Just had a circular about subsidies for solar panels/batteries. Unfortunately we don't have a south facing roof, and don't see the winter afternoon sun due to taller houses across the road.

Arellcat · « **Reply #339 on:** 04 March, 2022, 06:02:50 pm »

Quote from: Mrs Pingu on 04 March, 2022, 03:59:19 pm

I'm hanging on to see if solar panels get subsidised. Plus I suppose it makes sense to get insulated first.

The HES post-survey technical reports are quite good.

Currently HES isn't funding solar PV panels other than providing the interest-free loans. For solar thermal they are doing substantial cash-back on top of the loan, but only once the work is confirmed complete.

HES is very picky about the homeowner not commissioning any work until they have applied for the loan and had it approved. My CWI installer, a well known company that has done many housing association projects, quoted for the work and that quotation was only valid for 30 days, and they needed paid upfront a minimum of seven days before the work started. Remember that a HES loan application requires an EPC that is no more than three years old and (obviously) it must list as a recommendation the work you plan to have done. My EPC was five years old, which meant I would have to commission a new one solely to get my CWI funded. Or rather, part-funded: an EPC costs £75-100, and you must also update your EPC once the works are complete. Of course, you can include those costs in your loan, except that the CWI loan is to a maximum of £1000. For my really not very big house the work was £1300, plus a notional 2 x EPCs. 40% cash-back sounds like a lot, but half of that would have been absorbed by the EPCs, so I was set to save myself perhaps only £200 all told.

30 days simply wasn't long enough for me to get a new EPC and for HES to turn around a loan application. In the end I told them I had been cold in my house for four years and I was so fed up with the whole thing that I would just pay the costs myself and get a new EPC later when I do solar and/or a battery and ASHP. My local authority is utterly useless (in multiple ways) and had no area-wide schemes I could take advantage of, and of course I don't qualify for any other sort of assistance. My oil boiler is over 25 years old and I still don't qualify.

The only thing in my favour is that I have the use of an eyewateringly expensive FLIR camera, and am qualified to carry out my own post-installation thermographic survey.

DaveReading · « **Reply #340 on:** 04 March, 2022, 06:38:43 pm »

Quote from: Arellcat on 04 March, 2022, 06:02:50 pm

The only thing in my favour is that I have the use of an eyewateringly expensive FLIR camera, and can carry out my own post-installation thermographic survey.

Doubtless you're looking forward to that.

FifeingEejit · « **Reply #341 on:** 04 March, 2022, 07:18:59 pm »

Aye I would like a battery as well as panels but I'm aware you get help from them twice and I'd rather save the 2nd for combined ASHP, tank and solar water if I can for when the boiler is on its last legs, I can heat the place with the living flame fire... , a 5kwh battery costs more that 5kwh of panels

First company I managed to get In contact currently have a 10 week lead from approval to getting on your roof, and I need to get the brother round to bring some of the AC side up to standard too, feck.

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Mrs Pingu · « **Reply #342 on:** 04 March, 2022, 07:25:47 pm »

@Arellcat. Not really surprised. It all sounds like a good idea but the practicalities rarely match the idea (if you've read the rest of the thread you'll see I've yet to have any interest from any other companies in even doing a survey).
Annoyingly if our boiler hadn't needed to be replaced by the previous owner of our home just over a year ago we could have had a brand new boiler and underfloor insulation for free.
I hadn't really understood that we would need to get another EPC done though.

campagman · « **Reply #343 on:** 10 March, 2022, 08:39:13 pm »

How about buying shares in a wind farm. I saw this blog post today. I think this blogger is genuine. I know he is interested in ethical investments.

mrcharly-YHT · « **Reply #344 on:** 11 March, 2022, 08:39:26 am »

Quote from: campagman on 10 March, 2022, 08:39:13 pm

How about buying shares in a wind farm. I saw this blog post today. I think this blogger is genuine. I know he is interested in ethical investments.

Kim had already posted about Ripple.

The blog you link has a much clearer description of the Ripple model. The Ripple website has marketing woo, which put me off.

Kim · « **Reply #345 on:** 11 March, 2022, 01:34:01 pm »

I heard about it on an episode of Fully Charged, which also came across better than the Ripple website. They seem to have a bad case of Marketing.

https://youtu.be/65rlHr6ey4I

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/65rlHr6ey4I&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/65rlHr6ey4I&rel=1</a>

Also:

https://youtu.be/0OV_diBtXC4

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/0OV_diBtXC4&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/0OV_diBtXC4&rel=1</a>

Mrs Pingu · « **Reply #346 on:** 11 March, 2022, 01:35:55 pm »

OK I'll bite. If you were to 'own' part of the wind farm, why can't you get the number of kwh produced taken off your bill rather than just getting the rubbish wholesale price taken off your retail price?

Kim · « **Reply #347 on:** 11 March, 2022, 01:39:44 pm »

Because you're only saving the difference between the running costs of the wind farm and the wholesale market price of electricity. It costs money to maintain the windfarm, and to transmit and distribute electrons via the national grid.

If you stick solar on your roof, you pay for the cost of the hardware, and any maintenance they require. But there aren't any transmission or distribution costs. It's a better return, but it's more expensive per kW and it requires ownership of a roof.

Frank9755 · « **Reply #348 on:** 11 March, 2022, 01:56:15 pm »

I signed up for Ripple after you mentioned it the other day, Kim. Thanks for flagging it.

I agree that the site seems a bit overspun but it seemed to be a reasonable proposition - and I like the idea of having a share in a windfarm that provides my electricity (or provides to the grid an equivalent amount to my usage - I'm not quite that gullible!).

Kim · « **Reply #349 on:** 11 March, 2022, 02:04:42 pm »

Yeah, once I got my head round it, it seemed worth a punt. As an investment, it's marginally better than having the money sitting in the bank. And surely the end-game is an electricity grid composed almost entirely of cheap renewables (or perhaps competitively priced nuclear, which probably implies fusion), at which point your savings evaporate. But my take on it is that if that happens, we're winning.

As a way to power your home with green electricity without the luxury of owning a roof, it's compelling.