Disc bike or not

[Andy W]

Although I’ve a nice steel tourer with hydraulic discs it’s relatively heavy at 11 kg. I’m considering a rubble endurance sl rim braked bike. Specifically the brakes are direct mount. I don’t have a lightweight bike and this may fit the bill. Do others think direct mount brakes would be a retrograde option?

[chrisbainbridge]

I personally would not go back to rim brakes or QR levers.  discs with thru-axle is just "better"

[Wowbagger]

11kg seems remarkably light to me, especially for a tourer.

[He’s off again]

I wouldn’t go back to rim brakes, or qr’s or a triple (sorry to mention that, it’s just on of my pet hates).

There’s plenty of light bikes around thus equipped if you want a light sporty machine.

[vorsprung]

11kg isn't heavy

How much does the Endurance SL weigh?
The fully monocoque carbon Toray T800/T1000 frame weighs 1150g and the matching forks 400g. The Sport build weighs in at 8.25kg, Enthusiast 7.95kg and Pro 7.85kg in a medium size.

My offroad capable Genesis Datum is 9.5Kg.  It's not made any more but it wasn't expensive

[T42]

11kg seems remarkably light to me, especially for a tourer.

+1. My LHT weighed half a ton around 14.

[grams]

I hope you're not considering a new one. The secondhand market is awash with bargain rim brake bikes and parts.

Nowt wrong with rim brakes, especially on a summer (* looks out of window * dry weather) fun bike.

[mrcharly-YHT]

For a lightweight, to be ridden in (mostly) fine weather, I'd have no hesitation in using rim brakes.

Lighter, performance is just fine. Forks can be more pliable.

Just don't be a skinflint, buy decent pads.

[sojournermike]

I hope you're not considering a new one. The secondhand market is awash with bargain rim brake bikes and parts.

Nowt wrong with rim brakes, especially on a summer (* looks out of window * dry weather) fun bike.

This. Disc brakes are an enabler for carbon rims or tyres over 28ish mm and big guards. None are required for a fun light dry weather bike.

There is loads of second hand stuff around at the moment that just isn’t moving - a cheeky offer or two may well bag a bargain. Ultegra and DA rim brakes (6800/8000/9000/9100) are utterly brilliant. I’ve not ridden 105 in anger so can’t comment on those, but they may well be fine too.

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

My town bike has front discs - Shimano cable.  Good stoppers but a bit hard to get rid of the squeak.

Other bikes are rim, incl. the tourer.  It was possible to descend the Galibier in thickish snow turning to sleet with a full touring load, as fast as possible in order to get down into the warmer valley asap, using cantilevers. The only requirement was to stop my hands becoming too cold to operate the levers.

Also descended the Tourmalet going east on the audax bike with dual pivot Shimanos starting off in a bit of blizzard.  I had mudguards and all that could be seen of the road was a stream of water. Fellow-riders with no guards had to get off and walk just because of the spray.  I got down ok and was able to slow whenever necessary.  I also got to the hotel while there was still some hot water.  I still feel a bit guilty about that.

It wasn't a picnic, but I can't see how discs could have made things easier.  I am just a luddite, I suppose

[Morat]

I have bikes with V-Brakes, Hyro Disks and Cable Disks. I prefer Hydro Disks to everything else. V-Brakes are perfectly good as long as the wheel is nice and true. Cable disks are great when well adjusted but they take more adjustment between pad changes than the other options.
I haven't ridden a non disk road bike in decades so I can't comment on dual pivot etc, but I hated the old school cantilevers on my 1991 MTB.

[Adam]

Disc brakes are much better than anything else in the wet.

[Hot Flatus]

Rim brakes aren't as good in the wet and they wear your rims out.  This isn't so much of a problem with hand built conventional wheels, but it is with factory wheels with proprietary rims and spokes where availability of parts is not always good. Disc wheels avoid this issue to some extent, or at least  delay it.

For long term ownership get disc. Wheel choice for rim braked is already starting to shrink.

[mzjo]

Rim brakes aren't as good in the wet and they wear your rims out.  This isn't so much of a problem with hand built conventional wheels, but it is with factory wheels with proprietary rims and spokes where availability of parts is not always good. Disc wheels avoid this issue to some extent, or at least  delay it.

For long term ownership get disc. Wheel choice for rim braked is already starting to shrink.

^^^This, completely!

As someone who only has rim brakes, apart from a mtb/inert mass that has discs and a tandem that will have drums, the choice of a) rims that will take brakes and b) hubs that are not ta and disc brake widths is getting more and more limited (and expensive) by the day. In 650b the question is not of having a choice but just simply finding something (currently the choice would appear to be Ryde ZAC421 or nothing, at least on the continent - unless you have very deep pockets - and probably live in the US or Japan). Given that stuff does wear out, for future proofing discs plus ta hubs are a no-brainer!

I am even contemplating putting an Aliexpress disc fork on the tourer!

[sojournermike]

HotFlatus and mzjo make a very fair point about future parts replaceability. My rim brake wheels are all hand built with decent rims. However, it’s hard the judge the future availability of such given the rapid move to discs and economics dictating shrinking product lines. Who’d have guessed that all Shimano road specific groups would electronic disc only a generation ago?

The challenge isn’t necessarily getting something to fit but getting what you actually want to fit. At one level it’s built in obsolescence, but there are economic drivers too. The downside is that if you’re happy with your bike now you may not be able to keep it that way.

[vorsprung]

Rim brakes aren't as good in the wet and they wear your rims out.  This isn't so much of a problem with hand built conventional wheels, but it is with factory wheels with proprietary rims and spokes where availability of parts is not always good. Disc wheels avoid this issue to some extent, or at least  delay it.

For long term ownership get disc. Wheel choice for rim braked is already starting to shrink.

all of this is true and right but i am considering writing a whole series of pieces about hydraulic disks and the zillon ways they can go bad.  It's not all fluffy bunnies

[sojournermike]

Rim brakes aren't as good in the wet and they wear your rims out.  This isn't so much of a problem with hand built conventional wheels, but it is with factory wheels with proprietary rims and spokes where availability of parts is not always good. Disc wheels avoid this issue to some extent, or at least  delay it.

For long term ownership get disc. Wheel choice for rim braked is already starting to shrink.

all of this is true and right but i am considering writing a whole series of pieces about hydraulic disks and the zillon ways they can go bad.  It's not all fluffy bunnies

What would be lovely is a piece about how to avoid them going bad, ever;)

Only a sample of one, but I much prefer my Campag disc brakes over my shimano… mostly because they have just worked and only squealed briefly after getting caught in a downpour.

[sg37409]

I have trp hylex brakes which just seem to work with (close to) zero maint but shimano ones are very different.   I’ve had loads of contaminated pads on shimano as I suspect they weep mineral oil.  My trp ones have never done this and I tend to overlook pad maint as a result.   
https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=26458.msg2825919#msg2825919

Halfords disk brake cleaners seems good.

[Hot Flatus]

I have trp hylex brakes which just seem to work with (close to) zero maint but shimano ones are very different.   I’ve had loads of contaminated pads on shimano as I suspect they weep mineral oil.  My trp ones have never done this and I tend to overlook pad maint as a result.   

Halfords disk brake cleaners seems good.

I think they can weep oil. My 8 year old caliper has started squealing. Just changed pads, cleaned and lubed pistons, and am waiting to see if it starts squealing again. If it does I'll change the caliper.

Seems a minor price to pay (about £40 and 30 minutes of work to replace and bleed) compared to hassle of getting a wheel re-rimmed)

[sg37409]

You’ve had better luck than me if you’ve had 8 years out of a shimano calliper

Costs for me have been a lot higher with disks , so much that for a new commuting bike I went with the cheaper model to have cable disks.  They’re easily powerful enough for me (need a heftier pull tho) and this way I get (almost) all the benefits of disks without the cost overhead. 

[Lightning Phil]

I had 9 years out of shimano hydraulics without issue.  I then sold the parts.

[quixoticgeek]

Over 2 years without issue in Shimano calipers. In fact I'm mixing GRX brake levers with XT calipers. No issues. I think I'd struggle to go back to other brakes now, they are just so good.

J

[Hot Flatus]

. I think I'd struggle to go back to other brakes now, they are just so good.

I think maintenance costs are just one factor to be weighed in to the mix, of which performance is another factor. The performance is so good that I don't mind about the possibility of a weep in one caliper after 8 years.

By the same token, I haven't had to re-rim the wheels, and I don't need to keep an eye on rim wear.

[quixoticgeek]

. I think I'd struggle to go back to other brakes now, they are just so good.

I think maintenance costs are just one factor to be weighed in to the mix, of which performance is another factor. The performance is so good that I don't mind about the possibility of a weep in one caliper after 8 years.

By the same token, I haven't had to re-rim the wheels, and I don't need to keep an eye on rim wear.

I replaced brake pads once. Not cos they needed it, but because I was about to try and ride 4000km in 3 weeks.

I've had no weeping. I've bleed them once.

J

[grams]

My two Shimano sets have had zero maintenance other than brake pads and they’re 6 and 7 years old. They don’t get daily commuting abuse though.

Replaced plenty of Bowden cables during that time on other bikes, including one that seized completely after a wet tour.