SON hub frozen!

[Charlotte]

Okay, the lady on the telly last night was right.  It was damned cold this morning^*.  The roof of the bike bunker was covered in ice from standing water and I could hear it crack as I lifted the lid.

But when I went to wheel my bike to lean it up against the fence, it didn't want to move at all.  Needless to say, I checked to see if the brakes were binding but the back was fine.  Upon further examination, it was the front that was stuck, so I fiddled with the caliper and that seemed fine.

Then it struck me; the hub was seized.  That would explain why I was struggling to get down hills, let alone up them yesterday 

Clearly, it was something to do with the cold, so I went back inside and grabbed the kettle (boiled about 20 minutes before, so not too hot that it would cook anything).  I dumped the remains of it over the hub et voilà, it turned.

As for the IQ Cyo, though - it was dark.  I'm hoping that this was a hub thing.

A SON shouldn't let water in, should it?  Or was it the grease?  Surely to goodness that couldn't freeze?  There wouldn't be enough anyway, would there?

I suspect that I'm going to have to send it all off to Germany for some Teutonic luurve, as it left Bridgewater some three or four years ago and is well out of warranty.  Has anyone done this?  What's the drill - do I have to unlace it first?

I have a spare SON wheel I can use in the meantime, but given that this one's done less than 25k, I'd just like to say this:

Bugger 


_{^*There were in fact, a several of what appeared to be simian primates made from an alloy of copper and zinc, secreting fluids from their lacrimal apparatus...}

[border-rider]

You can send the whole wheel to Germany if you want.  Up to you.

I think the issue may be where you park it in the daytime.  I guess it arrives at work cold, gets out in a warm place and suffers condensation.  I don't think cold alone would do this.

[Charlotte]

It lives in the bike shed at work during the day (covered, but exposed - not direct sunlight) and in the Bike Bunker at night (covered, dry, but ver' cold).

Up until a year ago, it lived inside when it wasn't at work.  Could this be it?  I thought that SON hubs were sealed up as tight as a wotsit's doodah?

[LEE]

I think there's a breather hole in the spindle.  They advise you not to grease wheel squewers too much in case it blocks the hole up.

May be worth taking wheel off, removing squewer and putting it next to a radiator/airing-cupboard overnight to see if it can 'breathe out' any excess condensation.

Note.  I may have imagined this breather-hole warning.  It's a long time ago.

Edit: Aha, there is a breather but internally connected to bellows (which are sealed from internals also).

From KINETICS:

The SON is a very high precision hub - in fact, it is airtight. Because it it airtight, the air inside expands and contracts with changes in temperature, and SON found that in some circumstances this could suck water in past the seals on the bearings. To solve this, they fitted an internal bellows connected by a tiny tube to the outside air - the bellows expands and contracts to compensate for changes in temperature, but keeps the hub completely sealed against the elements. That’s how good SON are at attention to detail!

Maybe, like a perverted Eskimo, you've blown a Seal.

[Mr Larrington]

A SON shouldn't let water in, should it?

It didn't orter.  One of mine did about half a mile under water on the 2007 Cheddar Gorge to no ill effect.

[Charlotte]

Maybe, like a perverted Eskimo, you've blown a Seal.

I thought that was just frost on his moustache?

[andygates]

My shifting freezes up - I think it's damp grot in the cables that binds inner to outer in a naughty way. 

Surprised that a sealed and water-free SON binds up though. 

[De Sisti]

I had the same problem. Read this. . After packaging the complete wheel I sent it off here. . As the package weighed just over 2kg, the Post Office charged me double, that was £30.   

[Charlotte]

Cheers, Maander.  I'm going to swop out the wheel tonight and try the "drying out next to a radiator" option.  If it is still refusing to play ball after a bit of TLC, it'll have to go back to Germany.

[De Sisti]

The bike that the frozen hub was one (Paul Hewitt Cheviot) is now getting a well deserved service. I'm now on the George Longstaff Audax bike. I did have problems with a severe case of brake block rub on Sunday though (first time it's happened. Due to the cold?). Have now changed to Koolstop pads to solve the problem.

I expect Schmidt to contact me in a couple of weeks asking for credit card details. Good luck with you dyno.


maander

[inc]

Cheers, Maander.  I'm going to swop out the wheel tonight and try the "drying out next to a radiator" option.  If it is still refusing to play ball after a bit of TLC, it'll have to go back to Germany.

I don't know anything specific about the son hub but if it is water getting in, then even if it dries out this time it is likely  will happen again. It is only the fact that it froze that brought it to your attention. There may have been water in there for some time doing it's nasty work. If it wasn't water causing the problem then what was it, looks like a strip down either way.

[rogerzilla]

The Shimano DH-3N80 is better now.  Cut your losses.

[LEE]

The Shimano DH-3N80 is better now.  Cut your losses.

SPA still sell a complete Shimano Ultegra Dynohub/wheel for £105.

If it's just a problem with -5degC conditions then it may be cheaper to, as RZ says, cut your losses, get a Shimano hub/wheel and keep your SON wheel as a perfectly usable (11 months of the year) wheel.

[Zipperhead]

Clearly, it was something to do with the cold, so I went back inside and grabbed the kettle (boiled about 20 minutes before, so not too hot that it would cook anything).  I dumped the remains of it over the hub et voilà, it turned.

I'm very disappointed that you, as a committed urophagist, went inside to get the kettle when you had natures own remedy to hand.

Or is "get the kettle" a euphemism?

[Charlotte]

Or is "get the kettle" a euphemism?

When it's this bloody cold, that's emphatically not a euphemism.

[simonp]

Out of warranty?  Depends, innit.

Google translate of Schmidt Maschinenbau Service suggests you might still be in warranty

Our hub dynamo and lights are known for their longevity, even in harsh everyday use. Since 2004, we grant a five-year warranty on its function. Bulbs and improper treatment, however, are excluded.

So if 3-4 years... you might be in warranty.

[Charlotte]

Interesting.  Betcha I can't find my SJS receipt, though...

[border-rider]

It mightn't matter.

Talk to them - they do emails pretty quick - and explain that you've done PBP, want to do LEL etc.

When mine failed after 2 1/2 years SJS told me to f'off.  Schmidt fixed it free, fast and cheerfully.

[simonp]

Interesting.  Betcha I can't find my SJS receipt, though...

Maybe you still have the order confirmation email?

[simonp]

One of mine's failed (kinda), and out of warranty.  Haven't finished packing it up to send back.

It's 50 euros including the 10 euro postage.  Which'll be 50 quid.  I could have a shimano one for cheaper but I prefer not to throw away the SON tbh.

[mark]

Here's an explanation of how water gets into older SONs, along with some more information about warranties, precautions to keep water out, etc. Not sure how applicable it is to your situation, but scroll down to the section on "Reliability" (about 2/3 down) and see if it helps.

[Charlotte]

Fab link, thanks Mark.  I never greased the axle, so hopefully it might still be in warranty.

[RJ]

It's 50 euros including the 10 euro postage.  Which'll be 50 quid. 

My sources tell me Eurozone interest rates will be cut next week, which should mean an improvement (from this POV) in exchange rates.

[rogerzilla]

My sources tell me UK interest rates will be cut tomorrow 

[hbunnet]

Just seen this thread.

My Son lives outside with temps below freezing and down  to -15°C  so far this winter with no problems.