AVRO Vulcan XH558

[TimC]

The brief, I believe, was to aim for Cyprus after dropping the nukes, where hopefully tankers would be waiting if needed. There would have been no AAR out of UK. Incidentally, the '15 tankers' gig was to get a Vulcan the 4000 miles from Ascension to the Falklands with enough fuel on board to make the return trip. It does not reflect the Cold War situation. Bear in mind also that the Vulcan's main weapon was the Blue Steel stand-off missile, which would have been launched a few hundred miles from the target.

[jogler]

Incidentally, the '15 tankers' gig was to get a Vulcan the 4000 miles from Ascension to the Falklands with enough fuel on board to make the return trip. It does not reflect the Cold War situation.

A mightily impressive exercise in logistics: & a clear demonstration to those who needed it that,at that time,the UK armed forces had what it takes to succeed.

[TimC]

It certainly was a huge effort, and it was repeated every day (more than once a day) for a considerable period - the same effort went into getting C130s down to the islands to airdrop supplies to the Task Force or to troops on the ground. For the Hercs, two refuelling 'brackets' were required en-route. The Victors were a bit short of range themselves, so the huge number of tankers was required to get each final tanker to those two brackets. It was incredibly complicated! That's why we developed a tanker version of he C130, with far greater range (and more compatible performance). We eventually (after the war) refined the technique so that only one (C130) tanker was required to achieve almost the same range buffer as had been provided by the hoardes of Victors.

[Jaded]

She arrived from the West, in formation with the RV8ors, one of which was carrying a watch I won. 

Some spectacular manoeuvres, alternating between whispering, howling and roaring




Open the Bomb Bay doors, HAL


If you look closely you can see sponsors names on the inside of the doors

[Chris N]

Cosford? I think I saw it yesterday, about 11.30 - just before the red arrows - but I was 20 miles away near Shawbury.

[Jaded]

Some of the displays too off from Shawbury; definitely the Red Arrows did.

[Chris N]

I was here: http://www.streetmap.co.uk/idld.srf?X=355092&Y=325312&A=Y&Z=120&lm=1

Certainly saw the Red Arrows - ten in formation then landing individually - at Shawbury.  I wondered if the Vulcan took off from there too - I saw a large pale (possibly delta-winged) plane climbing hard and making one hell of a racket.

[pcolbeck]

I hope your watch wasn't in the bomb bay Jaded unless it was one of those indestructible Casio G-Shocks !

[Jaded]

I think it had been at Welshpool earlier. It did the Cosford display at about 16:00. Maybe you saw it on an earlier sortie? Typhoon display was earlier and that makes a lot of noise, but I missed that because of traffic.

[Chris N]

Ah, probably was the Typhoon.  Couldn't judge the size, but it was grey rather than camo.

[Jaded]

Not a photo, but a video..

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/oV8h4OEFOsI&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/oV8h4OEFOsI&rel=1</a>

[Cudzoziemiec]

One way.

Bloody hell, scary times. My parents moved to SW London when my Pop got a job in London on the basis that the prevailing wind was from the SW, so any fallout would likely blow away from them when central London was bombed.

A friend of mine was active in CND in the 80s in the Cheltenham area. With GCHQ, it was considered quite a target. Apparently some folk reckoned they'd be fine, because they lived on the other side of Cleeve Hill, so the bomb wouldn't affect them.

As a kid, I went through a period of terror after our school took us to see a theatre production of When the Wind Blows. For a few nights I didn't sleep, and went cold everytime I heard a plane going over.

I heard a story that the advice given to Vulcan crews was to keep going after they dropped their load, and find nice Mongolian girls to settle down with (but I don't know if Mongolia was in their range).

Moscow to Mongolia must be several times as far as UK to Moscow. Maybe with a bit of luck they could have made it as far as Kazakhstan - which is where the Soviet nukes where tested, so they wouldn't necessarily have been much better off!

[Cudzoziemiec]

Apparently the Argies filled the crater within a day,to a good enough standard for a Hercules.  Mind you, they can land on fairly rough airstrips.

They did. The runway was 4100ft long, and the crater was about 500ft from the western end, so pretty much irrelevant to short-range C130 operations. But it put paid to any plans to base fighters there.

Edit: as Torslanda said above!

So that means that fighter needs more runway than a Hercules? Why's that, I would have assumed it would be the other way round - bigger plane needs longer take off?

[spesh]

Apparently the Argies filled the crater within a day,to a good enough standard for a Hercules.  Mind you, they can land on fairly rough airstrips.

They did. The runway was 4100ft long, and the crater was about 500ft from the western end, so pretty much irrelevant to short-range C130 operations. But it put paid to any plans to base fighters there.

Edit: as Torslanda said above!

So that means that fighter needs more runway than a Hercules? Why's that, I would have assumed it would be the other way round - bigger plane needs longer take off?

It depends on the design of the aircraft - how much lift the wings generate, thrust/weight ratios, etc. The Hercules was designed as a tactical transport, so short-field capability was a high priority. In fact, the US Navy proved that you could land a Hercules on an aircraft carrier - and successfully take off afterwards...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ar-poc38C84&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/ar-poc38C84&rel=1</a>

[Cudzoziemiec]

Impressive landing! Obviously it's not at all as simple as I thought (no surprise there!)

[TimC]

Apparently the Argies filled the crater within a day,to a good enough standard for a Hercules.  Mind you, they can land on fairly rough airstrips.

They did. The runway was 4100ft long, and the crater was about 500ft from the western end, so pretty much irrelevant to short-range C130 operations. But it put paid to any plans to base fighters there.

Edit: as Torslanda said above!

So that means that fighter needs more runway than a Hercules? Why's that, I would have assumed it would be the other way round - bigger plane needs longer take off?

The Hercules is specifically designed to be a short take-off/landing aircraft, with a wing designed to give very high lift at low speed. In full tactical mode, it lands and takes off at around 85kts, and needs around 1500ft to take off and as little as 700ft to land (still air - the US Navy trials gave around 45kts wind-over-deck, allowing not just landings on deck, but starting the take-off run from where it stopped after landing!). Further, propellor-driven aircraft can accelerate much faster than jets in the low speed range. A fighter has a wing optimised for much higher speeds, and generally takes off at a much higher proportion of its maximum all-up weight. Take-off and landing speeds of a Mirage or Super Etendard would be around 170kts, and would normally need a runway of at least 7000ft. Stanley's runway, undamaged, would only have allowed very limited-range fighter operations, but that would still have been better than mainland-based ops. 

[Cudzoziemiec]

Interesting and informational, thanks. 

[spesh]

If you think landing a Hercules on a carrier is bonkers, read up on Operation Credible Sport (a follow up to the infamous, and abortive, Operation Eagle Claw) and discover how they tried turning up the Hercules' STOL performance to well past 11 so that they could land - and take off from - inside a football stadium! 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Credible_Sport

http://youtu.be/WKCl3lfAx1Q (Warning, contains USAnian pronounciation)

[mrcharly-YHT]

How about take off and land from an airship?

Lower aircraft out of airship on a 'trapeze' (no landing gear, just a hook at the top). Start engine, then drop away . . . .

'Landing' is reverse procedure.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Macon_(ZRS-5)

[clarion]

Or out of the bomb bay of a B36 bomber?

[spesh]

As with many things, parasite fighters were first tried by BRITONS  -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felixstowe_Porte_Baby

[Jaded]

Some might already know through our webpages and social media feeds, that unfortunately on Wednesday we had to make the announcement of a decision to cancel all further flight planning this season.

This was on the basis of a report we received earlier in the day on the condition of the leaking No.5 tank from specialists FPT Industries in Portsmouth.

Given that more than one leak and other signs of deterioration were found, and that the tank is itself over 30 years old, we had concluded that, if repaired, the tank would remain vulnerable to further leaks.

We have therefore decided that repair of the tank would not prove economical and, if reinstalled on the aircraft, could prove to be unreliable.

There is no airworthy spare available; so we have accordingly commissioned a new tank to be manufactured immediately.

With an estimated 16 week lead time for manufacture, it will not be possible to return the aircraft to flight again in 2013. XH558 has therefore sadly made her last public appearance this year.

[clarion]

That's sad, but sensible.  I'm pleased they're making a new tank.

[Jaded]

Buy a bit of Vulcan

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/vulpts/m.html?_trksid=p4340.l2562

[Adam]

I remember about 30-35 years ago walking around the back of the Dan-Air hangars at Lasham, where they had a big heap of scrapped Comets.  I ran off with a flight deck window and the Rolls Royce manufacturers plate off an Avon engine before the security guard spotted me.