Winter studded tyres

[TimO]

Chains would be a PITA unless your ride was consistently snow/ice.  The great Wen is sufficiently warmer in the middle (and the passage of vehicles radiating waste heat passing over the roads) means that ain't the case for thee or me.

Indeed, for most people on here chains are no use whatsoever, and only a very few people will be in parts of the world where they make any sense.  They could be useful if you wanted to take a disc braked mountain bike out in heavy snow, and were willing to do some experimenting with a home made solution.  I just thought I'd throw it out there.

[mattc]

With just a front wheel you still stand the chance of losing the back wheel whilst turning on unseen ice.

If it's icy enough to warrant studded tyres I'd want them on both.

I'm not saying rear studs are pointless !!!

Just that people manage without them, and there are cost/convenience issues. OK?

[nuttycyclist]

I don't see it will be worth my while spending out £70 on studded tyres as I managed ok last year, just thought it'll be easier with studded tyres if I could get a cheap pair... Think I manage, usually the cars have worn a nice route on the roads!

Without winter tyres last year I would have had to have commuted by train 10 days.

The first road I need to go down looked like this: http://www.greenbank.org/misc/Image005.jpg (roughly 5% hill going down). It's about 1km before I get to roads that have enough traffic on them to clear them.

hmm. I managed 55mile round trips on the roads last year, 15 miles of which was on roads like this: http://lh6.ggpht.com/_Fcjv6BKmydU/THQ8-GFVzfI/AAAAAAAAAD8/ukjLsBg8n3g/s640/snow4.JPG

It was very hard work, mostly because of snow build-up on the tyres rubbing on mudguards. That was using GP4S tyres. The days I quite riding were the ones following the heavy snowfall, when cars had packed the snow to ice, then the top melted in the sun.

If things go well, I hope to have a more suitable bike running for extreme winter. Not sure I'll bother with studded tyres tho'.

As we're posting photos, this ice was what I was riding on last year.
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q273/nuttycyclist/cycling/IMG_1402.jpg

[mrcharly-YHT]

glazed and compacted crap. Much harder than snow.

I had some of that, but staying upright was more a matter of close eyes and pray than tyre grip. studs for that stuff, I think.

[longers]

Rather than start a new thread I might as well ask here. I'm finally getting organised to making a pair of these homebrew riveted tyres after putting it off all summer and need advice on rivet selection please.

The article says steel, is it worth buying stainless?

The ones I've been looking at are for 1.6mm to 3.2mm or for 3.2mm to 4.8mm. Taking into account the thickness of the tyre plus the washer I think it'll be slap bang in the middle of the two sizes. With the longer ones the "collar" would fold over more and with the shorter ones the "head" will be more exposed.

Will it even matter? I've not used a lot of rivets so don't want to spend all that time faffing having chosen the wrong ones.

[Greenbank]

Rather than start a new thread I might as well ask here. I'm finally getting organised to making a pair of these homebrew riveted tyres after putting it off all summer and need advice on rivet selection please.

You might find you question already answered in this thread: DIY Studded tyres

[longers]

Thanks but I've either missed the answers or they're not in that thread. Plenty of screws used but I didn't see many rivets. I probably should have asked in there rather than here though.

[citoyen]

The first road I need to go down looked like this: http://www.greenbank.org/misc/Image005.jpg (roughly 5% hill going down). It's about 1km before I get to roads that have enough traffic on them to clear them.

Ah, thanks for this - I have a few gradients on my route and I was wondering how studded tyres cope with them. Would you say it's better to be on fixed or a freewheel when riding up or downhill on studded tyres? Or doesn't it make a difference? I can't help feeling I'd rather be on a freewheel, but I'm not sure why.

d.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Thanks but I've either missed the answers or they're not in that thread. Plenty of screws used but I didn't see many rivets. I probably should have asked in there rather than here though.

I think that might be because rivets probably won't work well in uk conditions. We are looking at glazed ice patches with bitumen. rivet heads are usually softish metal, and will wear very rapidly on bitumen. Screws are much harder.

[Greenbank]

The first road I need to go down looked like this: http://www.greenbank.org/misc/Image005.jpg (roughly 5% hill going down). It's about 1km before I get to roads that have enough traffic on them to clear them.

Ah, thanks for this - I have a few gradients on my route and I was wondering how studded tyres cope with them. Would you say it's better to be on fixed or a freewheel when riding up or downhill on studded tyres? Or doesn't it make a difference? I can't help feeling I'd rather be on a freewheel, but I'm not sure why.

My studded tyres are on the hackbike (Gary Fisher Nirvana Hybrid) with gears. My fixed only just has space for 25mm tyres, so no chance of 35mm tyres with studs. Even if I did have a suitable frame (Pomp for example) I probably wouldn't bother, fixed is good for lots of things but not everything. I'd probably like to be able to stand on the pedals and freewheel over the worst bits.

As for that gradient, I came up it on the way home after 5-a-side just as it had started snowing (so there was a sheen of slippery wet snow, not 2" deep snow like that photo). I had no problem with studded tyres and overtook a Police car that simply couldn't climb it, it just kept on spinning out despite an experienced driver at the wheel (i.e. not just trying it in first gear). He wound down his window to ask me how I was able to get traction and I pointed at the studded tyres.

[citoyen]

I'd probably like to be able to stand on the pedals and freewheel over the worst bits.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. I'd be interested to hear the views of anyone who has tried both fixed and freewheel with snow tyres.

For me, it's the same bike either way - it's just a question of swapping the rear wheel if I want to go from fixed to SS or vice versa. When the opportunity arises, I'll probably try both ways just to see for myself.

He wound down his window to ask me how I was able to get traction and I pointed at the studded tyres.

 

d.

[Greenbank]

For me, it's the same bike either way - it's just a question of swapping the rear wheel if I want to go from fixed to SS or vice versa. When the opportunity arises, I'll probably try both ways just to see for myself.

Does the frame/forks have clearance for the equivalent of 42mm tyres?

Also, for snow, you'll need to either remove the mudguards, or have a huge amount of clearance. Even 10mm clearance between studded tyres and mudguards fills up with snow pretty rapidly.

[citoyen]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it'll be fine clearance-wise. It's a CX bike, designed to take fat tyres... I'll be a bit miffed if it turns out I'm wrong.

d.

[mattc]

Thanks but I've either missed the answers or they're not in that thread. Plenty of screws used but I didn't see many rivets. I probably should have asked in there rather than here though.

... is the right answer. 

[nuttycyclist]

I'd probably like to be able to stand on the pedals and freewheel over the worst bits.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I thought. I'd be interested to hear the views of anyone who has tried both fixed and freewheel with snow tyres.

For me, it's the same bike either way - it's just a question of swapping the rear wheel if I want to go from fixed to SS or vice versa. When the opportunity arises, I'll probably try both ways just to see for myself.

He wound down his window to ask me how I was able to get traction and I pointed at the studded tyres.

 

d.

I haven't ridden fixed with studded.

I have ridden all types of bike in snow & ice conditions (including one, two and three wheel types).


Freewheel every time.  The worst case is when you get sudden sideways motion (on studded tyres this was when I went onto a patch of slush where a resident had salted).   
 - Fixed         : you can't catch it, either you spin up and drop it, or you lock up and drop it.
 - Freewheel : stop pedalling, control the slide with the steering, ride away.

[Greenbank]

- Fixed         : you can't catch it, either you spin up and drop it, or you lock up and drop it.

I don't see why you'd automatically do one or the other. With fixed you're more likely to maintain current cadence, maybe go a little faster until you notice, but you can't assume you'd spin up and drop it. Obviously if you're mashing the pedals at the time you'll be in trouble, but that situation isn't going to be that different if you were on a bike with a freewheel.

[nuttycyclist]

- Fixed         : you can't catch it, either you spin up and drop it, or you lock up and drop it.

I don't see why you'd automatically do one or the other. With fixed you're more likely to maintain current cadence, maybe go a little faster until you notice, but you can't assume you'd spin up and drop it. Obviously if you're mashing the pedals at the time you'll be in trouble, but that situation isn't going to be that different if you were on a bike with a freewheel.

From experience.

Pressure on pedals as riding forwards up a slight incline.  Bike steps sideways due to unseen reason and rear loses traction.  The pressure on pedals immediate accelerates the wheel as traction goes from complete to zero.

Bike now steps wildly out as the back wheel has spun up.

To regain traction you've got to get the wheel turning at the correct speed so that the tyre is turning at the same rate as the ground is passing.  Highly technical.  Back off too much and you're braking/locking up, back off not enough and you're still spinning.


On a freewheel you just stop pedalling and the tiny amount of friction does that for you, but any sliding is still irrelevant as you can focus on steering and control.

[mattc]

Possilby OT:

The nice science lady on the BBC yesterday mentioned that last winter was a 1-in-20 year bad one. So perhaps we should be multiplying the prices in our cost-benefit cases by 20 ... 

[citoyen]

Fortunately, my commuting route gets icy every year, just not always as badly as last year, so the cost-benefit of studded tyres is somewhat improved.

d.

[darkpoint]

Just had some continental spike claw 240s delivered. 

Can't belive how exctied I am to get some new tires. 

Bring on the cold. 
(however knowing my luck, it is going to be a mild one now..)

[Palinurus]

 
(however knowing my luck, it is going to be a mild one now..)

Oh, I hope not.

[Palinurus]

I've been commuting for 20+ years and I've only got some studded tyres last winter.

In all that time I've fallen off as a result of snow and ice on three occasions; all on the same journey.

Fresh snow on frozen old snow. It was a bastard, mainly because I couldn't see when the front wheel was trying to climb out of a rut.

Otherwise soft knobbly tyres have done the job fine.

I could've done with some spikes that day though.

[clarion]

Right.  I've ordered some Winters.  There are none in stock, so I'll have to wait, but it isn't going to snow imminently, is it?

Is it?

[Adrian]

Right.  I've ordered some Winters.  There are none in stock, so I'll have to wait, but it isn't going to snow imminently, is it?

Is it?

You should be OK for a few weeks yet.

[rogerzilla]

I rode fixed with studs (more like spikes, actually).  It was fine, not a single "moment" except when I tried to get through deep snow with 35mm tyres and experienced awful tramlining.