£10 registration fee per event for organisers

[mmmmartin]

yes i am perfectly happy to pay a surcharge for Paypal entries - it saves me having to pay 48p per stamps to put on three envelopes and is thus a saving.
Having said that, there is always the thrill of getting home from a tedious day trying to avoid doing any work in the office to discover an envelope with a Shoreham-on-Sea postmark containing a routesheet from El.

[frankly frankie]

From my standpoint as a newbie organiser I can say that the amount of sheer graft for a calendar event is the same for 5 riders as for 50...

That might be true if the work finished when the final control closed.
But the post-processing, and especially packing the cards back to the riders, can be quite a long job on a big event, and a bit of a shock if you've gone into "thank god that's over" mode.

In my case I'm checking numbers daily as although the card numbers are set 7 days from the start it feels that it might all happen at the last minute

It does.  AUK Entry Level Predictor

[Bairn Again]

So far, the only justification thats been put forward for the registration fee is that most riders will pay a resulting increase in event entry fees for smaller events. 

Which is quite different from it being a good idea.



 
 

[frankly frankie]

I think most Organisers (with 20 or more entries) would absorb the £3 and not even notice it. 
As far as I can see, it's the up-front nature of the payment that is causing a certain amount of angst.  But set against that, all event levies up to now have been payable after the event, which has certain disadvantages from AUK's point of view.  So why not at least split it a bit?

The Bryan Chapman Scenic 600 and Mr. Pickwick's Tour of the Cotswolds 300 are not likely to feature in any future events calendar, as neither covers it's own costs under the proposed £10 registration scheme.

If that's your only reason for withdrawing the Scenic, I don't understand what's wrong with allowing your other 600 (run on the same day and using the same facilities) to subsidise it?

[Billy Weir]

It does.  AUK Entry Level Predictor

Complete aside.  I wonder if this predictor is a tad inaccurate now, given PayPal entry.  At a guess, 75% of my entries come via PayPal and most of these much sooner than was the case with postal entries.  My current rule of thumb is to add 50% to where you are 2 weeks before the event (rather than 100%).  Maybe something to consider "surveying" at the end of the season?

Anyhoo, back to this riveting talk of £1 for P&P.

[Martin]

It does.  AUK Entry Level Predictor

Complete aside.  I wonder if this predictor is a tad inaccurate now, given PayPal entry.

depends a lot on the event and how strictly the closing date is observed; on my established event I get many emails saying "still got places?" from the regulars for the last 2 weeks followed by a cheque in the post several days later; they are slowly all turning to  Paypal. I generally get Paypal up to about a week before then none then about 6 (plus phone calls and emails about EOL's etc) a day before (I've never turned anyone away even after officially closing entries). No idea where the ELP gets its data from, certainly not organisers who are probably scouring Aldi and the local Job Centre Plus / phoning distant relatives etc 14 days before the event to try and muster enough helpers...

[BlackSheep]

Having given it a few seconds thought, How's about:-

26 free cards for £9. And organisers self validate 300, 400 & 600 events - Only BR events of course.

Sure - poor old uncle AUK takes a hit of a whole 10p on the card production.

BUT our intrepid and incredably hard working Validators save well over £1 (prob nearer £2) on every ride event that's validated.

Can't see it being adopted some how for a number of reasons, those being:-

1, It's a reasonably thought-out solution.
2, It makes sense for a majority.
3, Riders get a faster turnaround on brevet validation, useful for longer ride qualification validation.
4, Everybody wins, AUK get a bit of dosh up-front, organisers less likely to drop events.
5, A BlackSheep doesn't always have to be Black or a Sheep.
6, The shock of getting up-to-speed on organiser validation for BR events. The plan was to introduce the 300, 400 & 600 in consecutive years, once the 100, 200 events were proven - well that was years ago. We should be well onto on 600k self validation by now.


EDIT 09/02/11 @ 14:04 to clarify diiference between ride and event.

[mikewigley]

5, A BlackSheep doesn't always have to be Black or a Sheep.

I just didn't understand that

[frankly frankie]

Another practical (I hope) suggestion for Blacksheep's 600s is simply to register the two as one event, incurring one £10 fee instead of two.  You give riders a choice of routesheets on the day, or a combined routesheet or whatever.
The tricky bit is the need for a combined Brevet Card, but since AIUI all the controls are the same places, just the distances different, a combined card (with alternative distances and times in brackets) is actually quite easy to do, I can show you or your EvSec how if necessary.
Nice - the riders in the main event will be able to see what they're missing ...

[Ian H]

Another practical (I hope) suggestion for Blacksheep's 600s is simply to register the two as one event, incurring one £10 fee instead of two.  You give riders a choice of routesheets on the day, or a combined routesheet or whatever.
The tricky bit is the need for a combined Brevet Card, but since AIUI all the controls are the same places, just the distances different, a combined card (with alternative distances and times in brackets) is actually quite easy to do, I can show you or your EvSec how if necessary.
Nice - the riders in the main event will be able to see what they're missing ...

There is a whole quarter point of AAA difference.

[frankly frankie]

26 free cards for £9. ...

1, It's a reasonably thought-out solution.
2, It makes sense for a majority. ...

It is a reasonable suggestion, though regarding point (2) it actually puts more small events into the "hey I'm buying cards I don't want" category.

[MSeries]

Another practical (I hope) suggestion for Blacksheep's 600s is simply to register the two as one event, incurring one £10 fee instead of two.  You give riders a choice of routesheets on the day, or a combined routesheet or whatever.
The tricky bit is the need for a combined Brevet Card, but since AIUI all the controls are the same places, just the distances different, a combined card (with alternative distances and times in brackets) is actually quite easy to do, I can show you or your EvSec how if necessary.
Nice - the riders in the main event will be able to see what they're missing ...

So surely everyone will take the shortest route between the controls though and thus make the two event the same. Are there not additional info controls to demonstrate the different route and the additional climbing ?

[jogler]

As an organiser-in-waiting I find this thread very illuminating.
Some of the statistics relating to the number of entries are interesting & suggest that it is not difficult for costs to exceed revenue.
If I charge £5 (which seems a fairly typical rate from a quick perusal of the calendar) per rider & get 20 entries that would not cover the cost of hiring the local village hall let alone the cost of food & drink(.Like others I regard the cost of petrol as not being part of the equation.) An additional £10 pro-forma is not attractive proposition.
The proposed start venue is not easily accessible by public transport which may be a limiting factor to some riders who would  otherwise attend.
 

[Martin]

jogler; if you are not confident of enough entries to cover your costs don't hire a hall for the first event; there are plenty of zero cost alternatives (usually car park starts) and free finish controls (pubs; sports centres; even your own home etc) if you take that approach you can knock the entry fee right down to eg £3; still cover the new £10 fee and grow your event in future years from there (that's the approach I'm taking on my first 200; I also organise a full service village hall and free lunch event but I took it over so I know what entries were likely to be)

[jogler]

^^
I now have other venues in mind.Home is one of them.The £10 thing will not prevent it happening.The entire thread encouraged a deeper train of thought.

[Ian H]

The 100s I used to organise (now perms) used a local cafe that was willing to stay open a little later for the finishers. My current 150, 200 and 300 will use a pub that's willing to stay open until the cutoff (0200 in the case of the 300, but no alcohol after midnight). It's worth investigating no-cost alternatives.

[frankly frankie]

An additional £10 pro-forma is not attractive proposition.

Just a reminder - it's not an additional £10.  For most organisers what's been announced is an additional £3.
For a few Organisers of small events it's more, but only because previous attempts to impose a very reasonable 'minimum order' limit on cards have failed.

[AndyH]

My current 150, 200 and 300 will use a pub that's willing to stay open until the cutoff (0200 in the case of the 300, but no alcohol after midnight).

Now there's an incentive.

[phil d]

I don't look at the AUK yahoo group very often, but I did this morning, and was surprised to find no discussion of this registration fee whatsoever.

[Andydauddwr]

Coming to this late, but I wish mandatory paypal entries had been included with this change.  Surely AUK could facilitate centrally for a handling fee for those less technologically confident orgs?

Andy (feeling grumbly after the latest Blue Peter fest)

[BlackSheep]

Just a reminder - it's not an additional £10.  For most organisers what's been announced is an additional £3.
For a few Organisers of small events it's more, but only because previous attempts to impose a very reasonable 'minimum order' limit on cards have failed.

That's correct.

From their argument (although none of it has been minuted), £7 per event is enough to cover the committee's requirement to cover costs for each event.

The increase in membership fees, anounced at an AGM in the recent past was more than enough to cover costs for (then) the foreseeable future, implying four or five years years.

But what I think most people would like an answer to is. and following the extended debate on LEL at the 2009 AGM is :- What's the resultant surplus £1500+ going to fund ? ? ? ? ?

[border-rider]

Coming to this late, but I wish mandatory paypal entries had been included with this change.  Surely AUK could facilitate centrally for a handling fee for those less technologically confident orgs?

+1.  It's time to dump the envelope-and-stampery.

[DanialW]

You can already see what Audax UK's committee spend your money on. Unlike LEL 2009, Audax UK publishes its accounts. So will LEL2013. In fact, LEL's finance chap submitted our accounts to HMRC last week.

[DanialW]

+1.  It's time to dump the envelope-and-stampery.

I must confess, I will miss paper route sheets turning up in the post. However, cheques are a pfaff. So yes, Paypal please.

[Panoramix]

Can't we find a way of "funding" the smaller events? I have to admit that one of my best ever audax was the kite  & peacocks and we were less than 10 at the start.

There must be a way to do it, even if it means non specific Brevet cards. Can't we say generic permanent style brevet cards for small events (<20)? Frankly, I would rather ride in mid Wales with a generic card than not ride at all.