Super bright flashing bloody lights

[Oscar's dad]

Hmmm, this useful stuff.  Much of my night riding is on quiet country lanes.  I have a Hope 1 as have the majority of my riding buddies.  We have noticed that a Hope 1 (even when it isn't set to "Stun") will often stop an oncoming driver in their tracks.  I have always assumed this was a good thing, but after reading some of the above posts I'm not so sure.  I might set my bike up with lights on and then sit in the car facing it to see what my Hope 1 plus second blinky light looks like from a driver's point of view.

[rogerzilla]

The lumen output of a typical 3W LED is less than two 55W dipped beams, and considerably less than 35W HIDs.  Is it the small size of a bike lamp that is the problem, or do they have a bad aim?  Modern lights like the B&M Cyo have a pretty sharp cut-off at the top of the beam, to the extent that you can't see much on reaching the bottom of a dip in the road.

[rogerzilla]

Even DIPPED car lights have become a problem in the last - ooh, I dunno - 5 years or so. Not simply for brightness, but narrowness of hot-spot. The bloody things are in effect flashing on any imperfect surface.

I'm increasingly finding that HIDs are generally no worse than halogens for dazzle, but either type can be badly aimed.  About 1 in 3 cars has the beam set too high, either accidentally or deliberately (for better forward vision; next time you're driving at night, note how many drivers at the head of the queue never use full beam at all).  Aim is supposed to be checked in the MoT, and there is proper kit to do it, but I don't think most testing stations bother.

I put it down to the usual can't-be-arsed attitude of motorists, garages and the traffic police.

[mcshroom]

It could also be lack of understanding of light adjustment dials in the car. Mine has 4 settings depending on how loaded the car is. I don't usually use the unloaded (zero) setting as it sets the lights a bit too high for my liking, even with just me in the car.

[simonp]

^ ^ ^ ^

What Mr Andygates said!

+1 spot on.

[Wendy]

Andy: hate away:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/UwJwMMwThjQ&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/UwJwMMwThjQ&rel=1</a>

[handcyclist]

Even DIPPED car lights have become a problem in the last - ooh, I dunno - 5 years or so. Not simply for brightness, but narrowness of hot-spot. The bloody things are in effect flashing on any imperfect surface. Grrr ...

I have HiDs, properly adjusted and MoT worthy. As you say, the beam cut off is so defined that on a bumpy road they look to oncoming traffic like I'm flashing, and cresting a hill it looks like I haven't bothered to dip. I'll get flashed at by a non-HiD vehicle driver at least once per night time car journey. Bloody good lights to see by mind.

The same jiggle/flash problem affects motorbikes even more. I've actually learned to back off massively from the car in front at night on country roads, after an irate car driver in front slammed his brakes on, then yelled ''WHAT?'' out of his window as a went past him ..... 

[hubner]

Even DIPPED car lights have become a problem in the last - ooh, I dunno - 5 years or so. Not simply for brightness, but narrowness of hot-spot. The bloody things are in effect flashing on any imperfect surface. Grrr ...

I have HiDs, properly adjusted and MoT worthy. As you say, the beam cut off is so defined that on a bumpy road they look to oncoming traffic like I'm flashing, and cresting a hill it looks like I haven't bothered to dip. I'll get flashed at by a non-HiD vehicle driver at least once per night time car journey. Bloody good lights to see by mind.

The same jiggle/flash problem affects motorbikes even more. I've actually learned to back off massively from the car in front at night on country roads, after an irate car driver in front slammed his brakes on, then yelled ''WHAT?'' out of his window as a went past him ..... 

That sounds to me the lights are aimed much too high, almost like a full beam, surely a "dipped" beam should be pointing down onto the road.

I reckon actual dipped lights are definitely a minority out there on the road. Most so called "dipped" motor vehicle lights are too bright, quite a lot have one or both lights on what looks like full beam. I've even been dazzled when sitting at the front on the top floor of a double decker bus!

[hubner]

I'm less than convinced dazzling lights are dangerous. Annoying, certainly, but not dangerous. Bright lights encourage you to drive at them, yes?

So all you can see is the bright light and nothing else, and that's not dangerous?

[Hot Flatus]

Of course it's dangerous. Anybody (like me) who runs bright lights should park up their bike at night and take a walk in front from a way back to see what the effect is. I did this before using my 1000 lumen 868, and now I know to have the rear of the hotspot hitting the road no more than 4 metres in front of me.

I've no desire to piss other road users off, ever.

[Kim]

That sounds to me the lights are aimed much too high, almost like a full beam, surely a "dipped" beam should be pointing down onto the road.

I watched them adjust the light alignment when I took my car for its first MOT.  The correct alignment seems to put the top of the beam pretty much horizontal, with the triangular wedge off to the left above it.

I try to reproduce this with my B&M IQ bicycle lights, and it seems to give optimal illumination of the road ahead.

Obviously a headlamp with a sharp cutoff like this will appear to flash on hills or bumpy ground.  Occupational hazard, unless you throw some really clever technology at it, or soften the cut-off (which makes for less good distance illumination, assuming the same alignment).


Sure there are plenty of vehicles out there with poorly adjusted lights (how many people bother with the load adjustment dial, for a start?), but even freshly legally adjusted ones aren't magically dazzle-proof.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Of course it's dangerous. Anybody (like me) who runs bright lights should park up their bike at night and take a walk in front from a way back to see what the effect is. I did this before using my 1000 lumen 868, and now I know to have the rear of the hotspot hitting the road no more than 4 metres in front of me.

I've no desire to piss other road users off, ever.

+1

also, if you do this, remember to crouch down to driver eye-height - it's not very high.

[Kim]

Anybody (like me) who runs bright lights should park up their bike at night and take a walk in front from a way back to see what the effect is.

FTFY.

This advice is just as applicable to inoffensively dim rear lights as it is to ^{_{FRIKKIN LAZERS OF DETH}}.

[hubner]

That sounds to me the lights are aimed much too high, almost like a full beam, surely a "dipped" beam should be pointing down onto the road.

I watched them adjust the light alignment when I took my car for its first MOT.  The correct alignment seems to put the top of the beam pretty much horizontal, with the triangular wedge off to the left above it.

I try to reproduce this with my B&M IQ bicycle lights, and it seems to give optimal illumination of the road ahead.

Obviously a headlamp with a sharp cutoff like this will appear to flash on hills or bumpy ground.  Occupational hazard, unless you throw some really clever technology at it, or soften the cut-off (which makes for less good distance illumination, assuming the same alignment).


Sure there are plenty of vehicles out there with poorly adjusted lights (how many people bother with the load adjustment dial, for a start?), but even freshly legally adjusted ones aren't magically dazzle-proof.

If that's the legal setting, then IMO it's too high. If you need illumination of the road ahead (on unlit roads) you should be using a full beam. Dipped light should be mainly for others to see you on lit roads.

[Kim]

If you need illumination of the road ahead (on unlit roads) you should be using a full beam.

What about oncoming traffic?

[Wendy]

I'm less than convinced dazzling lights are dangerous. Annoying, certainly, but not dangerous. Bright lights encourage you to drive at them, yes?

So all you can see is the bright light and nothing else, and that's not dangerous?

I don't think I've ever seen lights dazzling to that degree, apart from the sun itself on rare occasions, nor have I seen anyone do anything to do with bright lights that didn't improve their safety - stuff like slowing down and/or stopping.

[hubner]

If you need illumination of the road ahead (on unlit roads) you should be using a full beam.

What about oncoming traffic?

Sorry I should have added when there is no oncoming traffic.

What is the point of dipped lights when they dazzle?

[Hot Flatus]

I'm less than convinced dazzling lights are dangerous. Annoying, certainly, but not dangerous. Bright lights encourage you to drive at them, yes?

So all you can see is the bright light and nothing else, and that's not dangerous?

I don't think I've ever seen lights dazzling to that degree, apart from the sun itself on rare occasions, nor have I seen anyone do anything to do with bright lights that didn't improve their safety - stuff like slowing down and/or stopping.

I'm amazed. In the dark, if I point my 868 straight ahead I guarantee you won't be able to see anything else if you are oncoming.

Mind you, you ride exclusively in London iirc, where there is nearly always street lighting

[Wendy]

I'm amazed. In the dark, if I point my 868 straight ahead I guarantee you won't be able to see anything else if you are oncoming.

Mind you, you ride exclusively in London iirc, where there is nearly always street lighting

I have some sections of unlit country lane on my commute. Your light is a roughly 500 actual lumens light, so it's not that bright. Even my MaXx-D, also far from the brightest light, just isn't a problem at almost twice that brightness. All these lights are completely washed out by a car headlight - just look at your light cast on the road when a vehicle overtakes. Your light may as well not be on by comparison with the car's headlight.

Maybe it helps that I've probably done a lot more long distance night driving on unlit roads than most, in very dark conditions?

[hubner]

I'm less than convinced dazzling lights are dangerous. Annoying, certainly, but not dangerous. Bright lights encourage you to drive at them, yes?

So all you can see is the bright light and nothing else, and that's not dangerous?

I don't think I've ever seen lights dazzling to that degree, apart from the sun itself on rare occasions, nor have I seen anyone do anything to do with bright lights that didn't improve their safety - stuff like slowing down and/or stopping.

I'm amazed. In the dark, if I point my 868 straight ahead I guarantee you won't be able to see anything else if you are oncoming.

Mind you, you ride exclusively in London iirc, where there is nearly always street lighting

Even with street lights, if your eyes are caught in a car beam you will see nothing else, unless they are some distance away. This happens a lot on roads with even a slight curve going down, or around bends.

But I agree with the point even the brightest bike lights are drowned out several times by car lights.

[Hot Flatus]

Im sure the 868 is more than 500 lumens. I have a 450 lumen dinotte, and an E3 Triple with a claimed output of 800 lumens. It pisses all over them by a long margin.

With regards to car lights, the bulbs put out about 1000-1500 lumen, but of course are highly shaped. Not so with high output bike lights.

[spesh]

High-power bike lights originally were designed and marketed for mountain bikers, so tend to be spot or flood beams. For various reasons, they have crossed over to commuting use, but as discussed above, the beam shaping is all wrong for on-road use.

Mind you, some manufacturers do realise that on and off-road night-time riding have different beam requirements - for example, USE's Exposure range of lights features a road-specific model which has main/dipped beams, realised by using different lenses for the two LEDs.

[DrMekon]

The floody lights that come against me are bright enough that I can't see anything on the unlit road I'm on, hence the 2 people who use them get an earful whenever we cross paths. I can't make out anything about them - girl/boy/mtb/roadbike - who knows. Pretty much all I can see is the white line on the road. Totally ridiculous.

If I see them far enough in advance, I'm going to take my ixon off and just point it at their face next time.

[mattc]

The floody lights that come against me are bright enough that I can't see anything on the unlit road I'm on, hence the 2 people who use them get an earful whenever we cross paths. I can't make out anything about them - girl/boy/mtb/roadbike - who knows. Pretty much all I can see is the white line on the road. Totally ridiculous.

If I see them far enough in advance, I'm going to take my ixon off and just point it at their face next time.

:applause:

[Wendy]

Im sure the 868 is more than 500 lumens. I have a 450 lumen dinotte, and an E3 Triple with a claimed output of 800 lumens. It pisses all over them by a long margin.

With regards to car lights, the bulbs put out about 1000-1500 lumen, but of course are highly shaped. Not so with high output bike lights.

It's a magic shine claimed 1000 lumens, or about 500 in this reality IIRC.