'Best' audax brakes.

[MAC]

I've already asked this on the other place so apologies if you have already responded.

I am getting an N+1 in the Spring - an audax/fast touring machine. Pretty sure it will be a Hewitt Chiltern geared with a triple and shod with handbuilt wheels, sporting a nice dynohub and front light combo'. I wasn't too fussed about brake choice and was happy to get dual pivots but several forumites elsewhere have suggested discs are the way to go for an audax machine nowadays. I'm not convinced the advantages are that great for a this kind of bike and also understand fork choice is restricted with discs. I wondered if ceramic rims and compatible blocks might be a good compromise re wet weather braking and longevity. What do any experienced audaxers think?

[bikenrrd]

I think it probably depends on the total load of rider + luggage, or whether you are going to be riding in filthy mud or floods.

I'm only light and travel light and so the Campag dual pivots on my road bike have plenty of stopping power, even in the wet - it just takes 1/2 a second to scrub the water off when the brake is first applied.

The main advantages of discs are not wearing the rim out - they will wear the rotor out instead (eventually!) and not having to worry about mud clearance for the brakes.  This is why MTBs favour them.  Hydraulic ones also have the advantage of not getting dirt in the bowden cable set up.

A cable disc doesn't have this advantage and probably (I haven't done any calculations!) has about the same stopping power as a good dual pivot.  A hydraulic disc system has more stopping power than a dual pivot but are not widely available (yet) for STI / Ergos.

[Phil W]

I have dual pivot on the road bike and hydraulic discs on the mtb. Hydraulic discs for road bikes are unnecessary in my opinion.  On a mountain bike you are dealing with much more hostile terrain, mud, water, ground gritstone (iif off road in Peak), technical terrain under wheels, rocks, roots, drops etc.  separating braking from the requirements of strong light rims allows you to build wheels able to take this abuse time after time. Replacing disc rotors is easy and doesn't cost as much as a new wheel build.

For road bike descending 25% gradients can overheat the brakes if you drag on them, and this can explode the inner tubes. Those kind of gradients aren't that common, and by not dragging on the brakes, you can overcome the heat build up.

If you are thinking of a cyclo cross bike then by all means look at hydraulic. But not cable as offroad cable discs have gone the way of the Dinosaurs for anything properly off road I.e. not counting easy non technical stuff like the SDW

[Andrew Br]

I've already asked this on the other place

I'm here as well you know 

[phil d]

I've already asked this on the other place so apologies if you have already responded.

I am getting an N+1 in the Spring - an audax/fast touring machine. Pretty sure it will be a Hewitt Chiltern geared with a triple and shod with handbuilt wheels, sporting a nice dynohub and front light combo'. I wasn't too fussed about brake choice and was happy to get dual pivots but several forumites elsewhere have suggested discs are the way to go for an audax machine nowadays. I'm not convinced the advantages are that great for a this kind of bike and also understand fork choice is restricted with discs. I wondered if ceramic rims and compatible blocks might be a good compromise re wet weather braking and longevity. What do any experienced audaxers think?

Two points about ceramic rims

• Can you still get them?  I thought Mavic had stopped making them, but would be delighted to hear I'm wrong.
• My experience (matched by some other users, but denied by others) is that wet-weather stopping is initially significantly poorer than alloy rims.  I have found that on very wet days it sometimes takes several revolutions of the wheel to sweep enough water off to get the pads to grip.  One gets in the habit of frequently lightly applying the brakes on very wet days just to keep them working.

My experience is on Mavic Open Pros, which I have been using for about 10 years on my audax bike.  I've tried Shimano ceramic-specific pads, and also Kool-stop (the green ones), and am not sure I found any difference in performance between them.
 

[Oscar's dad]

Assuming you can get a nice fork (something I don't know much about) I would go for discs.  I have them on two of my bikes plus the rear of our tandem.  My audax bike has normal dual pivot brakes.  Discs are more powerful and I agree this extra power maybe unnecessary.  But, I like the way discs brake, you can apply the power much more smoothly and they stop the bike effortlessly.  I just like the way it feels! 

At some point I will do much the same as you, i.e. get myself a top notch audax / fast road bike.  It will have disc brakes (probably Avid BB7) plus dynohub (which I have now) and a triple (ditto) and hand-built wheels (ditto - I love my Harry Rowlands).

[bikenrrd]

For road bike descending 25% gradients can overheat the brakes if you drag on them, and this can explode the inner tubes. Those kind of gradients aren't that common, and by not dragging on the brakes, you can overcome the heat build up.

This is also a problem on hydraulic disc brakes - if you drag the brakes for a long descent then you will boil the fluid and your brakes will stop working!  Not a problem on MTBs as the brakes are applied in a more stop-start fashion than dragging.

[GrahamG]

I'd go with a large disc for braking - around 622mm diameter, one that you can attach spokes to...

Seriously, disc brakes are great, but really aren't necessary on an audax bike. HOWEVER, it depends on where you ride - if you do lots of laney back routes, especially hilly like the cotswolds then rims get worn down alarmingly quick so disc brakes can make sense. Similarly advantageous if you do a lot of cycle network routes that take in unpaved paths and shitty lanes.

[tom_e]

What kind of audax riding do you have in mind?  If you prefer a nice dry summer ride then I'm not sure you'd get much benefit from anything other than dual pivots.  On the other hand if you enjoy a nice dirty slog in one of the muckier seasons then the discs will give you more benefit.  Not exactly essential though.

If you are thinking of a cyclo cross bike then by all means look at hydraulic. But not cable as offroad cable discs have gone the way of the Dinosaurs for anything properly off road I.e. not counting easy non technical stuff like the SDW

Hmmm.  Overstated at best.  My BB7s work perfectly well on technical stuff - better than some hydraulics I have tried on others' bikes.  Sure a good hydraulic is better, but unless you're a hardcore downhiller you can do fine. 

[PaulF]

If you are thinking of a cyclo cross bike then by all means look at hydraulic. But not cable as offroad cable discs have gone the way of the Dinosaurs for anything properly off road I.e. not counting easy non technical stuff like the SDW

Not sure that I agree with this. The Avid BB7 is a great cable brake, easy to set up, plenty of modulation and as powerful as the hydraulics at a similar point. Wouldn't use them for a full on downhill bike but am happy with them in technical stuff.

I use the road version on a road bike - putting hydraulics on a drop bar requires various work arounds so is a bit of a no no at the moment. You've moved the braking surface away from the potentially dirty rims, no problem with boiling fluid on cable brakes, if teh wheel goes out of true you can still get home.

[vorsprung]

disk brake advantages

1) work slightly better in wet conditions
2) usually have better modulation - a light touch gives a bit of drag and a hard pull stops dead
3) don't wear out rims - wear on disks
4) can make bodge up ice tyres with cable ties

rim brake advantages
1) cheaper
2) lighter
3) compatible with more road bike stuff.  For instance running campag with disks, is either a cable pull adaptor or a BB7 disk, road version.  Don't think it is possible to run hydrallic disk brakes on drops.  Road bike frames and forks often lack disk brake mounts.
4) "some people say" disk brakes go out of alignment and have to be fettled after a few hours riding.  Dunno if this was a BB7 or a BB5 but it was on a Orbea road bike that comes with disks already fitted, not a homebrew
5) "some people say" with narrow road tyres on a road it isn't possible to stop any quicker than rim brakes do without locking the wheel

I've never tried disk brakes because of 3), I only have one bike that could potentially take disks

As for the OPs original question: you can ride audax on any sort of bike, there is no special type of brake

[Oscar's dad]

Avid BB7s are fantastic.  I know cos I use them.

[Somnolent]

I've locked up wheels with over-enthusiastic braking in both dry and wet conditions with dual pivots, so certainly no need for the extra power that disks might bring. 
Rim wear ?   I enjoy building wheels so a worn-out rim is a good excuse to try something different.

 

[tom_e]

And I've had a hairy moment waiting for the rims to dry under dual pivots when a car pulled out in front of me. 

But I agree ultimate power is not the issue - either can lock the wheel.  It's a mixture of rim wear and more repeatable response no matter what is on the rim for me.  Not essential at all.

[MAC]

I've already asked this on the other place

I'm here as well you know 

I know...ahem...a number of CCers also sully this esteemed forum with their presence from time to time (i'm one of them!). I'm just garnering a range of opinions from as many sources as i can before I splash the cash.

I think i'll go with dual pivots but with rear disc mounts for possible future fitting. Of course I will probably change my mind several times yet!

[Oscar's dad]

Andrij of this parish has a Hewitt Cheviott with front and back BB7s so you might like to contact him about forks.

[frankly frankie]

rim brake advantages
2) lighter

The difference is less than might be imagined.  Most of the extra weight for discs lies in the mounting hardware - the beefed-up tubing that is necessary, the lugs, the extra metal on the hubs. 

As a fat git who tends to drag the brake on long downhills, I'm a big fan of BB7s, and the new breed of disk-enabled 'cross bikes is great news for me. 
The main issue when looking at these is the position of the rear brake mounting - in the 'traditional' position (on the top of the seat stay, facing back) a cable disc is problematic in conjunction with a rack (though a hydraulic is OK - more compact) - the 'alternative position' (between seat and chain stays) works better but comes with its own problem, which is the cable housing end points upwards and so there is a potential water ingress problem.

[MAC]

Andrij of this parish has a Hewitt Cheviott with front and back BB7s so you might like to contact him about forks.

Thanks. I''ve sent him a PM.

[LEE]

I've already asked this on the other place so apologies if you have already responded.

I am getting an N+1 in the Spring - an audax/fast touring machine. Pretty sure it will be a Hewitt Chiltern geared with a triple and shod with handbuilt wheels, sporting a nice dynohub and front light combo'. I wasn't too fussed about brake choice and was happy to get dual pivots but several forumites elsewhere have suggested discs are the way to go for an audax machine nowadays. I'm not convinced the advantages are that great for a this kind of bike and also understand fork choice is restricted with discs. I wondered if ceramic rims and compatible blocks might be a good compromise re wet weather braking and longevity. What do any experienced audaxers think?

Any decent dual-pivots (Shimano 105 for example) are perfectly fine.

There's really nothing different about Audax riding than normal road riding/commuting and chances are you'll be more able to address a braking issue, in the middle of nowhere, with Shimano 105s than a disc setup.

Audax bike - Simple, comfy, reliable.

[Exit Stage Left]

The kind of Audaxes we do involve getting two bikes into the back of estate car, driving a long way, having a few beers, getting up at as early as 5 am, assembling the bikes, and then being certain the things work.
That's why we go for robust materials and conventional components. The bikes get bashed about, and assembly is done in a hurry with bleary eyes.