Author Topic: Safety socket covers (Read 10855 times)

rogerzilla · « **on:** 01 December, 2012, 07:37:49 am »

We never used them; I couldn't see the point, since you have to be rather determined with a small pointy thing (like my circuit tester) to prise the built-in shutters upwards and actually get to the conductors.

I never realised how silly they actually are, though:

http://www.fatallyflawed.org.uk/

Johnny Ball says so, and he is Always Right.

robgul · « **Reply #1 on:** 01 December, 2012, 08:23:33 am »

Agreed - my nephew (who is now 29 and a fully qualified electrician) mastered the removal of socket covers (sold by Mothercare) almost as soon as he could crawl ... he was also a dab hand at releasing those catch things that were supposed to stop kitchen unit cupboard doors being opened.

Our grandson is following the family trait with his ability (from the age of about 2 - he's now nearly 4) to adjust the setting knobs on our washing machine

Rob

Biggsy · « **Reply #2 on:** 01 December, 2012, 08:54:01 am »

I've always thought they were stupid. I'll take a print-out of that page to the community centre where I volunteer. Thanks Rog.

Jaded · « **Reply #3 on:** 01 December, 2012, 08:57:16 am »

In my experience it is the adults that cannot get the covers off.

To think we used to have full length path metal pins on our 13A plugs. Oh, the humanity! (Although, seriously that change probably as saved qute a few lives)

Illegal Combat Ant · « **Reply #4 on:** 01 December, 2012, 09:09:50 am »

That's got to be one of the worst designed sites evvaah.

I can sort of see their point, but it does seem to be campaigning against something that doesn't actually happen IRL. What are the KSI figures for children electrocuted by sockets that have been made more dangerous by covers applied incorrectly? As opposed to inquisitive kids with screwdrivers. I was the sort who until quite late in life used matchsticks and bare wires to connect an appliance to a BS1363 socket. Never did me any harm

Anyway, I always thought that the point of these things was to stop kids plugging appliances in, not to keep tiny fingers out.

I think FatallyFlawed are a bit of an obsessive single issue nutter organisation tbh, tilting against a non-existent real world problem.

Jaded · « **Reply #5 on:** 01 December, 2012, 09:24:13 am »

I have managed to break off the earth pin from one of those things, inside the socket. However, like ICA, I have also been significantly closer to live wires doing other more exciting things.

Basil · « **Reply #6 on:** 01 December, 2012, 09:24:49 am »

Quote from: robgul on 01 December, 2012, 08:23:33 am

... he was also a dab hand at releasing those catch things that were supposed to stop kitchen unit cupboard doors being opened.

Here too. I remember my mother visiting and saying one evening that she hadn't been able to work out how to open our kitchen cupboards. Luckily, she said, #1 son showed her how to do it.
He was 3 at the time.

Biggsy · « **Reply #7 on:** 01 December, 2012, 09:48:06 am »

http://youtu.be/c82O8bI6u0c

rogerzilla · « **Reply #8 on:** 01 December, 2012, 10:15:24 am »

The main risk with elecricity is not electrocution; hardly anyone is electrocuted by 240V electricity in a given year. The shock isn't even that bad (been there) unless you end up gripping the conductor or it finds the easiest path to earth is through vital organs. (I am told that a 415V shock is considerably worse, from people who've had both.)

No, the main risk is fire from poor or damaged connections, and these covers can certainly conmtribute to that.

Illegal Combat Ant · « **Reply #9 on:** 01 December, 2012, 10:28:18 am »

Do FatallyFlawed quote any figures for the number of incidents connected to this theoretical risk?
RoSPA don't seem terribly interested, could that be because there aren't real world incidents?

robgul · « **Reply #10 on:** 01 December, 2012, 10:47:20 am »

... the other thing with the "new style" 13 amp plugs is the sheer size of them - especially noticeable for things like phone and laptop chargers - as well as other appliances that you might take as luggage*

Europe has the same strength electricity as us but seems to manage with much smaller plugs, very frequently only 2 pin ... (lots of so called "earth" pins on stuff are a plastic pin that just activates the shutter)

* I have confess that I have quite a few things with European 2 pin plugs retro-fitted on them to reduce the size ... as alluded to in the first post it's not difficult to use something (a Yale key!) to depress the earth socket spring switch thing and then stuff a European 2 pin plug in the other 2 holes .. it's tight, but it works. Worst case you take one shaver adapter (for 13 amp) and plug the 2 pin plugs in that.

Rob

Biggsy · « **Reply #11 on:** 01 December, 2012, 11:01:30 am »

I think there's some luck involved in the risk of electrocution - re whether the current goes to your heart and the state of your heart (?).

Anyway, it's a shame that so many people have no idea of the shutters in mains sockets (and the depth of penetration required for an object to reach the live part even when the shutters are open). Where there's fear, there's a market for "safety" gear.

David Martin · « **Reply #12 on:** 01 December, 2012, 11:19:36 am »

I think socket covers are a good thing, but plug in socket protectors are awful. By covers I mean shields that can sit over the sockets to prevent children switching off or partially unplugging things.

..d

Pancho · « **Reply #13 on:** 01 December, 2012, 11:55:50 am »

When ours were young we didn't use socket covers, cupboard locks or stair gates. They all survived, IIRC.

Butterfly · « **Reply #14 on:** 01 December, 2012, 12:10:58 pm »

Supervision is a good solution.

Kim · « **Reply #15 on:** 01 December, 2012, 12:27:50 pm »

The great British BS1363 socket has this safety feature designed in from the start. The internal covers are far more secure than those plug-in things, as that site demonstrates. Anyone who's tried to knobble them to cram a euro plug in knows how much of a two-handed fiddly job it is to defeat them.

Plug-in socket covers are an import from countries with lesser sockets, where they do have a safety benefit (at least, during the developmental window where children have poking ability but not prising ability).

I'm fairly sure the biggest risk from BS1363 compliant fittings is injury to to bare feet caused by exposed plugs.

rogerzilla · « **Reply #16 on:** 01 December, 2012, 12:33:27 pm »

Quote from: Pancho on 01 December, 2012, 11:55:50 am

When ours were young we didn't use socket covers, cupboard locks or stair gates. They all survived, IIRC.

Natural selection. That's why we have all this stuff; Americans don't believe Darwin

Illegal Combat Ant · « **Reply #17 on:** 01 December, 2012, 12:35:05 pm »

I think the important thing to remember is that plug-in socket covers are not the first, nor the only, 'safety' device to be marketed with no convincing evidence base to back them up

They play on peoples anxieties, as do many, many consumer goods.

Some of these 'safety' devices have been demonstrated to have serious consequences in the real world. Plug-in socket covers aren't among them.

Ashaman42 · « **Reply #18 on:** 01 December, 2012, 12:37:25 pm »

Quote from: Kim on 01 December, 2012, 12:27:50 pm

I'm fairly sure the biggest risk from BS1363 compliant fittings is injury to to bare feet caused by exposed plugs.

Bloody painful isn't it?

hellymedic · « **Reply #19 on:** 01 December, 2012, 02:20:49 pm »

Quote from: Kim on 01 December, 2012, 12:27:50 pm

I'm fairly sure the biggest risk from BS1363 compliant fittings is injury to to bare feet caused by exposed plugs.

Touché!

TimO · « **Reply #20 on:** 01 December, 2012, 02:42:56 pm »

Quote from: Kim on 01 December, 2012, 12:27:50 pm

I'm fairly sure the biggest risk from BS1363 compliant fittings is injury to to bare feet caused by exposed plugs.

You only do it once though!

That is actually a direct consequence of a safety feature of UK style plugs, since the cable is deliberately taken out at rights angles to the direction of insertion, to discourage people from pulling on the cable to remove the socket, and damaging the cable or it's connection to the socket. If the cable did come directly out of the back, as typical with US and European styles, the pins would be parallel to the ground, and wouldn't stick up!

The UK plug design is considered to be one of the safest in the world, having been designed from scratch to have many safety features, and having been improved progressively. It's also one of the most expensive designs of plug and socket in the world! I'm perfectly happy with it, and likewise with not using pointless (and potentially dangerous covers) over sockets.

Whilst there's probably little evidence for the covers causing problems, they could, whilst they really have no effect on making the sockets any safer. So there's a clear non-risk vs a definite potential risk. Sockets aren't designed to take these things, and the covers aren't designed (or tested) to be safe and reliable.

Kim · « **Reply #21 on:** 01 December, 2012, 02:47:40 pm »

If you really want to cover the sockets, you could just use a proper plug with nothing wired into it. Maybe fill the cable hole with potting compound or something if you feel like wasting time...

Hmm, wonder if that'd be a marketable product...

More seriously, they'd be better off directing their energy on the dangers of wall warts with cheap plastic earth pins. I've had them snap off in sockets a couple of times now...

TimO · « **Reply #22 on:** 01 December, 2012, 02:59:15 pm »

Quote from: Kim on 01 December, 2012, 02:47:40 pm

If you really want to cover the sockets, you could just use a proper plug with nothing wired into it. Maybe fill the cable hole with potting compound or something if you feel like wasting time...

... but it would be even more easily removable than the so called covers, so wouldn't achieve it's supposed, but pointless purpose.

If I really wanted to protect a socket against any such misuse, I'd put a lockable cover over the socket, with a padlock on it. No small child is going to possibly defeat that.

Utterly overkill though. UK sockets are perfectly adequate to protect against fingers being poked into them. There are a lot of other ways that a small child could manage to injure themselves if not supervised, and allowed access to routine household objects.

hellymedic · « **Reply #23 on:** 01 December, 2012, 03:11:24 pm »

I suspect using multiple strips of Sellotape would make most sockets child and adult resistant.
Kids lose interest after a while.
Adults would lose their temper...

Jurek · « **Reply #24 on:** 01 December, 2012, 03:43:33 pm »

Quote from: TimO on 01 December, 2012, 02:42:56 pm

The UK plug design is considered to be one of the safest in the world, having been designed from scratch to have many safety features, and having been improved progressively. It's also one of the most expensive designs of plug and socket in the world! I'm perfectly happy with it, and likewise with not using pointless (and potentially dangerous covers) over sockets.

One of the design consultancies I worked for after leaving college, enjoyed something of a reputation for (amongst other things) coming up with innovative solutions for problems you might not have necessarily thought existed.
At one point we looked at the prospect of designing a 'fool-proof' 13amp plug. (Fool-proof in the sense that makes it impossible to wire it up incorrectly)
The project was fairly short lived, and was ditched quickly not because we were short of ideas for the 'fool-proof' part of the brief, but because of the mountainous amount of legislation and hoop jumping that would have had to have been done in order to make the thing BS1363 compliant - without which there was no way the plug would ever be available on the UK market.
We went back to doing fittings for bogs, bathrooms and kids toys.
Much easier.