Author Topic: The Sky at Night has gone dark (Read 5747 times)

FatBloke · « **Reply #25 on:** 09 December, 2012, 07:02:12 pm »

Mad as a box of frogs!!!!

Will be much missed. RIP.

rogerzilla · « **Reply #26 on:** 09 December, 2012, 07:08:48 pm »

Is it just me who gets Colin Pilinger confused with Mick from Time Team?

HTFB · « **Reply #27 on:** 09 December, 2012, 07:13:52 pm »

I hope he got to hear the last of the Kolkata test before he went. That'd have cheered the xenophobic old cricketomane up.

He was very friendly when I was 7 or so, and wanted to be an astronaut when I grew up. I think it was at a Lords Taverners match.

Eccentrica Gallumbits · « **Reply #28 on:** 09 December, 2012, 07:32:13 pm »

I believe it's possible to enjoy and appreciate someone's work without liking their personal views. cf Gary Glitter.

Peter · « **Reply #29 on:** 09 December, 2012, 07:36:46 pm »

Just as it's possible not to like somebody's work whilst not liking their personal views, cf Gary Glitter!

Ewan Houzami · « **Reply #30 on:** 09 December, 2012, 07:59:01 pm »

Quote from: rogerzilla on 09 December, 2012, 07:08:48 pm

Is it just me who gets Colin Pilinger confused with Mick from Time Team?

No. But not as bad as getting him confused with Ricky Gervais' mate, Karl Pilkington. I wasn't a big fan of Patrick Moore tbh, and thought he should have been retired years ago (esp when I became aware of his views on women), and it was hard to understand what he was actually saying in his later years. Still, end of an era and all that.

hellymedic · « **Reply #31 on:** 09 December, 2012, 08:10:01 pm »

Quote from: jogler on 09 December, 2012, 04:15:14 pm

Patrick Moore met

Orville Wright the first man to experience powered flight
Yuri Gagarin the first astronaut
Neil Armstrong the first moon walker

that's an impressive list of firsts

RIP Mr.Sky At Night

I think he played piano to Albert Einstein's violin too!

RIP

I went to one of Sir Patrick's birthday parties in Selsey
(and he used my wheelchair at one Astrofest; a wheelchair with reflective slapbands adorns a cover of Astronomy Now).

Kim · « **Reply #32 on:** 09 December, 2012, 08:18:30 pm »

Quote from: SteveC on 09 December, 2012, 04:00:03 pm

When I was a 'space' mad kid¹, Patrick Moore was one of my heroes. I was really disappointed when I found out about his politics, but it was probably a good lesson in the long run.

This, pretty much.

I don't think his politics detract from his achievements as an astronomer and TV presenter.

Tewdric · « **Reply #33 on:** 09 December, 2012, 08:30:30 pm »

Quote from: clarion on 09 December, 2012, 01:48:02 pm

He may have been a character, and I acknowledge that his enthusiasm got a lot of people - me included - interested in astronomy, but amid all the hagiography that's broken out, we shouldn't forget how vile his political views were. Basically, if you are black, gay, non-English or a woman, feel free to post how much you loved dear old Patrick, but be sure that he hated you.

He had outspoken views on immigration for sure, and if you automatically equate that with being racist then you would have viewed him as a racist. Not everyone does. Homophobic and misogynistic? I've no idea. I suspect he just held the rather traditional views of his generation. And you've confused English with British, as many English people do. I think the rather loaded nature of your post is unfair, personally. He contributed an enormous amount to science and culture.

clarion · « **Reply #34 on:** 09 December, 2012, 08:43:55 pm »

Without wishing to go over the ground again, I think I need to correct some misconceptions you have, Tewdric.

The party was explicitly racist, and merged with an openly fascist party. That's not in doubt. He was associated with the extremist Freedom Association and the Economic League, whose blacklisting of trade union members (particularly in construction) was creating waves still earlier this week. Homophobic? Clearly. Wikipedia, in a slightly coy version of his political beliefs, includes the following:

Quote

homosexuals are mainly responsible for the spreading of AIDS (the Garden of Eden is home of Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve)

Perhaps not wildly out of line with some of his generation, but prejudiced nonetheless.

Misogynist? Certainly. Many times, he said that the BBC and society in general had been 'ruined' by the introduction of (takeover by, he described it as) women.

And, far from my confusing British and English, that was definitely Moore himself. Wikipedia again:

Quote

Proudly declaring himself to be English (rather than British) with "not the slightest wish to integrate with anybody", he stated his admiration for controversial former MP politician Enoch Powell.

I know people who have been adversely affected by the blacklisting. It was horrible.

As I've said, I appreciate that he did a lot to enthuse people about astronomy, but Kirst's comparison with Gary Glitter was apt.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #35 on:** 09 December, 2012, 08:53:09 pm »

Well, so what?

What on earth is the point dancing on the guy's grave, via this forum, if only to provide yourself with yet another opportunity to roll out your right-on credentials.

clarion · « **Reply #36 on:** 09 December, 2012, 08:56:36 pm »

I mentioned it once, and have only responded to pther posts following that. I'd be happy to leave it there. It's something which was important to him. We should remember people for who they are, or we end up with a Jimmy Savile situation. I don't wish to go on about it, but it would be wrong to imagine Moore as some kind of lovable eccentric saint. He did a lot of good stuff - I haven't denied that, indeed celebrated that - but that's not the whole picture.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #37 on:** 09 December, 2012, 09:00:52 pm »

Quote from: clarion on 09 December, 2012, 08:56:36 pm

I mentioned it once, and have only responded to pther posts following that. I'd be happy to leave it there.

You've made seven posts on this thread, which is more than anyone else. One post would have sufficed.

clarion · « **Reply #38 on:** 09 December, 2012, 09:03:34 pm »

If people didn't try shooting the messenger for telling the truth, uncomfortable though that may be, I'd feel no need to respond.

Eight.

Hot Flatus · « **Reply #39 on:** 09 December, 2012, 09:04:45 pm »

No, really, one would have sufficed.

The guy is barely cold.

clifftaylor · « **Reply #40 on:** 09 December, 2012, 09:06:19 pm »

Ah, I see - Clarion, provider of The Truth.

Biggsy · « **Reply #41 on:** 09 December, 2012, 09:07:08 pm »

It shows a lack of basic respect for human beings to criticise a person on the day their death is announced.

Jaded · « **Reply #42 on:** 09 December, 2012, 09:14:16 pm »

Come on, this is ridiculous.

Start a thread in POBI if you want to post about politics and link it here surely?

perpetual dan · « **Reply #43 on:** 09 December, 2012, 09:17:01 pm »

I'll miss his programmes, that got me into science as a kid, even if his role in them was gradually diminishing with his strength. I didn't agree with everything he said (and he wasn't right about all the space stuff) but as a communicator he was an inspiration.

TimO · « **Reply #44 on:** 09 December, 2012, 11:31:52 pm »

Quote from: clarion on 09 December, 2012, 08:56:36 pm

I mentioned it once, and have only responded to pther posts following that. I'd be happy to leave it there. ...

No, you posted in a deliberately provocative manner, what is generally referred to as Trolling. I'll accept that Patrick Moore was far from a paragon of the reasonable moderate treatment of people, but he actually generally kept those views fairly low profile, and to some extent by deliberately highlighting this behaviour, you've actually given them far more coverage, probably to little overall gain. It's not as though anything is going to change his views now.

Quote from: clarion on 09 December, 2012, 08:56:36 pm

... It's something which was important to him. We should remember people for who they are, or we end up with a Jimmy Savile situation. I don't wish to go on about it, but it would be wrong to imagine Moore as some kind of lovable eccentric saint. He did a lot of good stuff - I haven't denied that, indeed celebrated that - but that's not the whole picture.

And again you make a comparison with Jimmy Savile, as you previously made one with Mussolini, both of which were unreasonable. Patrick Moore was not a paedophile, nor was he a fascist dictator responsible for the deaths of thousands, and such comparisons are unfair and distasteful. I don't think anyone is claiming that he was a saint, most of the people in this thread are probably aware of his political views (even more so now), but belief in such things whilst impacting upon others lives, in itself wasn't that unusual in the era he was born into, and is still not that uncommon today, hence the widespread support for related political parties, and nor are they illegal.

Generally people don't consider it essential to detail the less appropriate past history of the recently dead to quite the degree that you seem to be intent upon. You appear to be taking support for him, even to a limited extent as some sort of personal attack, that you then have to attempt to justify. This isn't P&OBI, it's The Pub, and generally the tone is much more restrained and tolerant.

Illegal Combat Ant · « **Reply #45 on:** 10 December, 2012, 12:02:33 am »

Quote from: Jaded on 09 December, 2012, 09:14:16 pm

Come on, this is ridiculous.

Start a thread in POBI if you want to post about politics and link it here surely?

Done. Off you go, those who are interested.
Me? He stimulated my life-long love of ~~astrology~~ astronomy.

and I just ignored his crackpot politics. I know what he'll be remembered for.

TimC · « **Reply #46 on:** 10 December, 2012, 12:06:26 am »

Patrick Moore was an eccentric - deliberately and self-consciously and perhaps slightly embarrassingly, but he loved the idea of being Toad of Toad Hall! He always wore his RAF tie, and it's well known he joined the RAF underage, but he never claimed to be any kind of a hero - but we are only now beginning to realise how hard it must have been to be a member of RAF Bomber Command when the casualty rate was around 50%!

Patrick enthused so many people about astronomy, in such a delightfully English and unusual way. We all remember his bizarre but informative programmes, and perhaps my favourite memory of him is as the narrator of the stage play "Beyond The Forbidden Planet" which I saw at least half a dozen times!

He was great. He introduced so many of us to stuff we could not have contemplated otherwise. He was born in the 1920s, and his fiancée was killed by a bomb in WW2, so it's not surprising he maintained views incompatible with the 21st century. I can forgive him that; I know from people who knew him that he was not in any way a nasty person. RIP, Patrick. Ignore those who can only see things in polemics.

Biggsy · « **Reply #47 on:** 10 December, 2012, 12:33:39 am »

A warm tribute from Dr Maggie Aderin-Pocock:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-20659290

Biggsy · « **Reply #48 on:** 10 December, 2012, 12:44:00 am »

Heather Cooper wrote to Moore asking if being a girl would hamper her career. "Couldn't believe he replied to me. It says, from Patrick Moore: 'Dear Ms Cooper, many thanks for your letter. Let me assure you on one point - being a girl is no handicap at all'. I just thought that generosity of spirit was fantastic. It really urged me on."

http://www.abc.net.au/am/content/2012/s3650779.htm

Wowbagger · « **Reply #49 on:** 10 December, 2012, 12:49:19 am »

It's a never-ending question: this massively talented and entertaining old bastard was exactly that - an old bastard. We can argue for ever about whether his good points outweigh the bad. See also Richard Wagner.

A recent correspondence between SE Essex FoE and our UKIP representatives in the European Parliament has unearthed the "fact" that everybody's hero, David Attenborough is, apparently, in the pay of dark forces for putting forward ideas about climate change, the existence of which UKIP deny. Who'd have thought.

Edit: Patrick Moore died 8 years to the day after my mother.