Scorchio...

[Hot Flatus]

And yet people will be jetting off to these temperatures, and they won't spend their time in houses with verandas and shutters, they'll be out lying on the beach.

And what humidity?

And how many of those will get sun stroke. or suffer heat exhaustion? Every summer tourists from the UK suffer heat related illnesses when they goto warmer climates.

It's a bit hot. It's not armageddon.

People will die due to the heat this week. For those people, that's pretty fucking significant.

Trains will stop running cos the rails will buckle.

Roads will be closed cos the tarmac melts.

Water networks are going to struggle with increased demand.

Power grid is going to have a mixed bag with the heat effecting transition lines and transformers, but the big increase in solar output.

It's not Armageddon. But it's pretty fucking significant. Sure we're going to have only 2-3 days of it, and most ca be easily repaired.

But this is definitely indicative that it's going to happen more often.

J

I don't want to scare you, but there are old people in hot countries too 

[quixoticgeek]

I don't want to scare you, but there are old people in hot countries too 

Yep. Who are acclimatised to it. And who live in buildings designed to handle the temperatures.

J

[ElyDave]

At least we don't have mosquitoes in most of the UK, which make sleeping in the heat even worse.  Meanwhile, 90% of new USian homes have aircon, which makes outdoors even hotter (as well as increasing energy use and CO2).  PV-powered aircon, anyone?  I think it would just about work, in power terms, on a clear day, assuming a house or bungalow.  Flats might not have the roof to volume ratio.

We have some nasty bastards here in TEH FENZ, very recognisable stripy gits.  Apparently in the south east and east anglia we are now getting forrin mossies as well. We need better control of our borders I tell you!

[rafletcher]

I don't want to scare you, but there are old people in hot countries too 

Yep. Who are acclimatised to it. And who live in buildings designed to handle the temperatures.

J

The acclimatisation is a fair point. The buildings, not so much. Oh, traditional buildings are probably better, but modern apartments anywhere are generally not so good.

[Hot Flatus]

Judging by my Italian friends, the acclimatisation seems to have passed them by. They moan about the heat more than we do. And, like most Italians, they live in apartment blocks.

[Cudzoziemiec]

At least we don't have mosquitoes in most of the UK, which make sleeping in the heat even worse.  Meanwhile, 90% of new USian homes have aircon, which makes outdoors even hotter (as well as increasing energy use and CO2).  PV-powered aircon, anyone?  I think it would just about work, in power terms, on a clear day, assuming a house or bungalow.  Flats might not have the roof to volume ratio.

We have some nasty bastards here in TEH FENZ, very recognisable stripy gits.  Apparently in the south east and east anglia we are now getting forrin mossies as well. We need better control of our borders I tell you!

I think they are probably not aedes mosquitoes with accompanying malaria risk. Not yet.

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/aedes-invasive-mosquitoes-current-known-distribution-march-2022

[barakta]

Older and vulnerable people in hot countries die... People who cannot avoid working in the heat - more working class and racial minorities working in shitty undocumented or immigrant jobs, will also be at more risk.

But equally, where heat is expected, do have better coping strategies. Indian friends of mine are sharing tips like types of drinks to try (and those to avoid), better clothing (loose, light colours, cotton etc) and avoiding over-dressing or exposing too much skin.

An older person in Romania which is the country I know which has 40C in the summer 'at times' would know to rest at the hottest part of the day (if they could) and that this is common, 1pm-5pm is people going home and eating their largest meal followed by a nap/hiding from the sun/heat. There were always places to stop and buy cold drinks. People knew the heat was risky and behaved accordingly.

Even the Romanian tower blocks have features to manage heat, the verandas are in the shade, screens so windows can be open without beasties coming in, closing windows when the temperature gets higher outside than in, keeping sunlight out of the rooms where possible.

People in hot countries really know what the signs of sunstroke and heat exhaustion are and how to treat them. A few years back at a UK event, a friend of mine went to collect her child at 3pm and found the creche had taken all the children outside to run around and play at 2pm while it was still SCORCHING hot. She found her child lying semi conscious under a tree which staff hadn't noticed! The creche staff hadn't remembered her child's hat and did not know how to treat a child with heat exhaustion - flapping uselessly and moaning. It was only cos friend is a healthcare professional that she knew what to do and cooled her kid down so that her kid was recovering by the time the ambulance arrived... Without friend turning up early, her kid could have been much more sick as it wouldn't have been noticed and wouldn't have been treated so promptly... Yes, a complaint was put into the creche provider and I think OfSted too...

Other comments about humidity also apply. Australian and Indian friends of mine both say high 20s 26-28C are more miserable for them in the UK than 40+ in Melbourne or Delhi for a range of reasons including not being acclimatised while living here and humidity.

[Cudzoziemiec]

The best example I've encountered of building for a hot, humid climate was Samoa. The Samoan house is a more or less round structure with a thatched roof on a wooden frame, a wooden floor a foot or so off the ground, and woven shutters you can roll down or up. Absolutely suited to a climate where the temperature is usually in the 30s and, as you'd expect from an island of tropical forest in a vast ocean, humidity is high. Also suited to the local culture which, among other things, does not prize privacy. But even when I was there (1997) a few people were starting to build solid-wall western-style houses with glass windows.

Ed: I've just streetviewed round some bits of Samoa and not found a single traditional fale, but there are several wall-less buildings, eg:
https://goo.gl/maps/1jVkUCkLERTQZBJp8

[Hot Flatus]

Ah yes, humidity. That well known humidity hotspot that is the UK.



Tomorrow it will be 37⁰ in London and 20% humidity.
In Hanoi, same temp. but 80% humidity.

Having spent 8 months in SEA Asia, and all of it in rainy season, I feel reasonably qualified to talk about humidity.

UK isn't humid when it's hot. If you've never felt like your face was covered in lard you really don't know what high temp/high humidity feels like.

[mrcharly-YHT]

I realise that the elderly may not be included in this, but is anybody else a bit baffled by what looks like hysteria over 35⁰, when at the end of next week many will choose to jet off in seek of such temperatures?

At one office in Cambridge, temperatures just over 32C produced office temperatures of 40C.

If it were 40C outside, I'd refuse to go in to that office.

Any tower block of flats is equally badly designed, with even less air flow to dissipate heat.

People are not physiologically adapted to coping with such temperatures. People will die.

[mrcharly-YHT]

There certainly wasn’t the hysteria in 1976, a heat wave and drought I worked through (in a bloody great tin shed in WH Allen’s in Bedford. We got water coolers and salt tablets.) And maximum temps were similar. Maybe forecasting wasn’t as accurate, so there wasn’t the doom laden premonitions. But, yes, there will be excess deaths as a result of the heat,  in 1976 Wikinaccurate says something like 20% over a 3 week period. We’re getting 3 days this year. And we’ve had similar low 30’s spells over the last couple of years with barely a mention. I’m not really sure why this event has triggered the outpourings. That said I’m not one for great heat, and thankfully it looks like (unlike today) there will be some breeze around.

I'm getting really tired of saying this.

NO IT WAS NOT AS HOT IN 1976.

A  very simple check of max temperatures would tell you that.

[quixoticgeek]

Ah yes, humidity. That well known humidity hotspot that is the UK.



Tomorrow it will be 37⁰ in London and 20% humidity.
In Hanoi, same temp. but 80% humidity.

Having spent 8 months in SEA Asia, and all of it in rainy season, I feel reasonably qualified to talk about humidity.

UK isn't humid when it's hot. If you've never felt like your face was covered in lard you really don't know what high temp/high humidity feels like.

Now it's evening humidity has dropped down to just 45% here. I don't know where the numbers for the pretty map come from. Do they take into account climate change in recent years?

I'm happy to be wrong about all this. I'd be over joyed for it to be a couple of days of Summer™, where everyone eats icecream, and enjoys the weather.

But the reality is, infrastructure in the UK will fail. People will die. I would love to be wrong about this. Really want to be.

J

[Hot Flatus]

I realise that the elderly may not be included in this, but is anybody else a bit baffled by what looks like hysteria over 35⁰, when at the end of next week many will choose to jet off in seek of such temperatures?

At one office in Cambridge, temperatures just over 32C produced office temperatures of 40C.

If it were 40C outside, I'd refuse to go in to that office.

Any tower block of flats is equally badly designed, with even less air flow to dissipate heat.

People are not physiologically adapted to coping with such temperatures. People will die.

Yes they will. The elderly, as per my post.

Everybody else is well able to survive mid to high 30⁰.

It was 40⁰ on the Tour yesterday. As far as I know none of the people racing for 6 hours, often at full exertion,  died.

[ian]

It’s basically true that saunas are Finnish death chambers.

[Cudzoziemiec]

These posts could have been copied almost word for word from the Covid thread.

[Hot Flatus]

Now it's evening humidity has dropped down to just 45% here. I don't know where the numbers for the pretty map come from. Do they take into account climate change in recent years?

I'm happy to be wrong about all this. I'd be over joyed for it to be a couple of days of Summer™, where everyone eats icecream, and enjoys the weather.

But the reality is, infrastructure in the UK will fail. People will die. I would love to be wrong about this. Really want to be.

It isn't just a few days of summer, it is exceptionally hot weather for the UK. Those temperatures would not be exceptional for Central and Southern France, or indeed Spain, and as far as I am aware plenty of British people opt to holiday there, and indeed retire there.

It is going to be an uncomfortable couple of days for everybody, and yes, some elderly people will be picked off by it, just as they are by a cold snap in January. We need to be aware of this, certainly, but the absolute hysteria is not, in my honest opinion, warranted.

As I've said, many people will jet off in search of these temperatures at the end of the week.

[Basil]

I know it's dangerous.  My particular worry is a major power failure.
But I'm sort of looking forward to it, just to experience what it's like for that to happen here.
I've experienced temps of over 100°F in Texas in the early '80s,  I'm not sure if it got to 104 though.
My memories are of constant massive temperature changes as you passed in and out of buildings.

[quixoticgeek]

It isn't just a few days of summer, it is exceptionally hot weather for the UK. Those temperatures would not be exceptional for Central and Southern France, or indeed Spain, and as far as I am aware plenty of British people opt to holiday there, and indeed retire there.

It is going to be an uncomfortable couple of days for everybody, and yes, some elderly people will be picked off by it, just as they are by a cold snap in January. We need to be aware of this, certainly, but the absolute hysteria is not, in my honest opinion, warranted.

As I've said, many people will jet off in search of these temperatures at the end of the week.

Is it hysteria? to recommend people stay safe?

Is it hysteria when we tell people to not drive on the ice roads?

I've done first aid for events in UK summers. I've seen people coming to us for treatment suffering from the heat. Not old people, but young, fit, average people predominantly. Treating someone with Hyperthermia or sunstroke is not a fun experience.

It's gonna be hot tomorrow. I hope you're not going to utter a single word of complaint. Don't want you joining in the hysteria.

J

[Hot Flatus]

I've had heatstroke. At 4000m in the Himalayas. I know what the sun can do.

I think most people get it, without the 24h scrolling images of red maps and apocalyptic warnings.

I probably won't commute to work tomorrow.

[quixoticgeek]

I've had heatstroke. At 4000m in the Himalayas. I know what the sun can do.

I think most people get it, without the 24h scrolling images of red maps and apocalyptic warnings.

I probably won't commute to work tomorrow.

You have more faith in most people than I do.

J

[ian]

I realise that the elderly may not be included in this, but is anybody else a bit baffled by what looks like hysteria over 35⁰, when at the end of next week many will choose to jet off in seek of such temperatures?

At one office in Cambridge, temperatures just over 32C produced office temperatures of 40C.

If it were 40C outside, I'd refuse to go in to that office.

Any tower block of flats is equally badly designed, with even less air flow to dissipate heat.

People are not physiologically adapted to coping with such temperatures. People will die.

That penultimate sentence is entirely untrue.

[Mr Larrington]

A Team DSM doctor interviewed on this arvo's stage of the Tour said that their riders were sent on hot weather training camps specifically so they could adapt to racing in temperatures like these. TV's Lizzie Deignan confirmed his story; the BRITISH cycling team did similar before the Tokyo Olympics.  Though in these cases the people in question are already ridiculously fit athletes.  A moderately fit 21 y/o Mr Larrington, after a day of riding a bike in southern France in conditions not dissimilar to today’s Tour stage, keeled over in the campsite office at day end, to be revived by an enthusiastic Irish Wolfhound licking my face This is why I've never been to the top of Mont Ventoux.

[Hot Flatus]

The Tour has been going for over a century, and bar Tom Simpson (who had done a fuckton of speed) thousands of riders haven't died. The heat training will be to try and gain an edge over other competitors, and not to avoid certain death.

[ElyDave]

I realise that the elderly may not be included in this, but is anybody else a bit baffled by what looks like hysteria over 35⁰, when at the end of next week many will choose to jet off in seek of such temperatures?

At one office in Cambridge, temperatures just over 32C produced office temperatures of 40C.

If it were 40C outside, I'd refuse to go in to that office.

Any tower block of flats is equally badly designed, with even less air flow to dissipate heat.

People are not physiologically adapted to coping with such temperatures. People will die.

Yes they will. The elderly, as per my post.

Everybody else is well able to survive mid to high 30⁰.

It was 40⁰ on the Tour yesterday. As far as I know none of the people racing for 6 hours, often at full exertion,  died.

The Elderly

and the disabled and otherwise unable to regulate their body temperature, but not elderly.  I assume they either do not count in your totting up, or you just don't bother to consider them.

[mrcharly-YHT]

I realise that the elderly may not be included in this, but is anybody else a bit baffled by what looks like hysteria over 35⁰, when at the end of next week many will choose to jet off in seek of such temperatures?

At one office in Cambridge, temperatures just over 32C produced office temperatures of 40C.

If it were 40C outside, I'd refuse to go in to that office.

Any tower block of flats is equally badly designed, with even less air flow to dissipate heat.

People are not physiologically adapted to coping with such temperatures. People will die.

That penultimate sentence is entirely untrue.

OK, I'll expand on it, to satisfy you.

When people live in a particular climate, they become adapted to that climate. Their body changes how it responds. People living in a cool climate like the UK are not accustomed to hot weather; equally, people visiting from a hot climate (say, Australia) find UK temperatures difficult, far too cold. It isn't a matter of comfort, they shiver in what we consider balmy temperatures.
I remember a ridiculously cool Christmas in Australia one year; we were wearing thick wool jumpers because the temperature was 25C.

Was it the phrase 'physiologically adapted' that upset you? Will you be satisfied with 'acclimatization'?