Author Topic: Buying a second hand iMac / Running an iMac on a Windoze Domain (Read 3020 times)

Afasoas · « **on:** 10 February, 2014, 12:30:11 pm »

Hello,

A friend/client has asked me to help them out on this.
I have my own idea, but I thought I'd check with you learned folk.

Looking to procure an iMac for photo editing. What spec and how much second hand?
Thanks
Dan

Jaded · « **Reply #1 on:** 10 February, 2014, 01:06:53 pm »

I have a piece of string I'd like you to measure!

RAM?
Processor?
Screen size?
Graphics chip?
Ports (does it have Thunderbolt)?

Afasoas · « **Reply #2 on:** 10 February, 2014, 02:07:14 pm »

Well that's my point. I'm asking for your recommendations on vintage and specification.

Clearly, budget is important, otherwise I'd point them at the Apple Store.

My baseline comparison is the PC I use for photo editing. That's a Core i7 (3770) with 16GB of RAM and a Nvidia geForce GTX 660 2GB video card. It's coupled to an Asus PA248Q 24" display. Together they set me back about £1200.

It's fast and the only things that tax it are video encoding from After Effects and image upsampling.

I've tried to talk the client around but they're convinced they want an iMac.

I'm thinking 2011 onwards 27" i5. 8GB RAM. Separate graphics would be nice.

Jaded · « **Reply #3 on:** 10 February, 2014, 03:01:06 pm »

Definitely i5 or i7.
Core 2 Duo only if they like slugs.
8GB should be fine.

Where are they looking and what is the budget?
If a customer of mine wanted a PC I'd get them a PC, despite the fact I prefer Macs.

yoav · « **Reply #4 on:** 10 February, 2014, 07:09:00 pm »

Also take a look at the refurbished store on the Apple website. Some bargains can be had as the computers are as good as the new ones and come with the same guarantee. Stock changes every Wednesday.

Afasoas · « **Reply #5 on:** 11 February, 2014, 12:12:55 am »

Quote from: Jaded on 10 February, 2014, 03:01:06 pm

Definitely i5 or i7.
Core 2 Duo only if they like slugs.
8GB should be fine.

Where are they looking and what is the budget?

I think I have talked them into buying new. Customer gets to claim VAT back on any single transaction over £2k and as I have to order external hard disks, UPS and antivirus software for a server install, the iMac pushes them nicely over the threshold.

Quote

If a customer of mine wanted a PC I'd get them a PC, despite the fact I prefer Macs.

If the extra outlay wasn't an issue, let alone an extra hardware/software configuration I now get to look after I wouldn't have deterred them. Thankfully joining an iMac to a windoze domain doesn't look too problematic but I know very little about administrating them.

The iMac is a potential purchase to support one member of staff. I am not on-site all the time. What is the best method of getting remote access to make configuration changes and install new software? In windows Remote Desktop is subject to group policy. Is the iMac going to wind up being the free radical?

Thanks

Jaded · « **Reply #6 on:** 11 February, 2014, 07:45:33 am »

Anti virus software? Best not. Just ensure they carry out sensible practices. The only viruses I've ever had flagged up are Windows ones in emails. Certain 'respected' AV software packages are snake oil.

What support is going to be necessary? Since my aunt (90) and mum (not quite that old) went to Mac the support I've had to give is to remind them of lost passwords. VNC packages will work. I use LogMeIn, but I've got a Central account. The Free version has gone now. Teamviewer also works apparently.

tonycollinet · « **Reply #7 on:** 11 February, 2014, 07:55:58 am »

Teamviewer is very good - but free version is for personal use only.

Afasoas · « **Reply #8 on:** 11 February, 2014, 08:11:19 am »

Teamviewer is a no no. This is a commercial site currently using Teamviewer but I am phasing it out as the business need doesn't justify the cost and it is being used as a very inefficient way of streaming audio from one PC to the other over the network.

You seem to think an iMac can look after itself? So am I to rely on the end user to backup their own data that they have saved to the machine? I expect them to save anything business critical to the network but that won't happen. If users can save work locally they will. I let the end user install their own software and hope it's all licensed? Forget about documenting what software is installed so years down the line the business has no clue whether or not it was licensed? Assume the machine is never going to run out of space?

Some of these problems I have already come across in Mac users (no backups/full HDDs/OSes crippled in one way or another) and the lack of any kind of documentation with the existing PC infrastructure throws up it's own surprises.

Macs maybe more user friendly, not built down to a price (in so many instances) and may not arrive bundled with skunkware like PCs do bit they are not a panacea.

Jaded · « **Reply #9 on:** 11 February, 2014, 08:24:33 am »

Sounds like a meatware issue to me.

Afasoas · « **Reply #10 on:** 11 February, 2014, 09:35:14 am »

Jaded,
Any experience of system administration? A couple of relies don't count.

ian · « **Reply #11 on:** 11 February, 2014, 09:52:33 am »

Quote from: Afasoas on 11 February, 2014, 09:35:14 am

Jaded,
Any experience of system administration? A couple of relies don't count.

You started off with a 'friend/client' recommendation and now it's systems admin, which is a bit of a change. I believe the adage is that that good friends don't become your system admin. Leastways that's how it ought to work.

tiermat · « **Reply #12 on:** 11 February, 2014, 10:23:03 am »

Quote from: ian on 11 February, 2014, 09:52:33 am

I believe the adage is that that good friends don't become your system admin.

I will agree with that, and point out that none of my friends, 20 years ago, stopped me when they should have...

Afasoas · « **Reply #13 on:** 11 February, 2014, 11:09:11 am »

Quote from: ian on 11 February, 2014, 09:52:33 am

Quote from: Afasoas on 11 February, 2014, 09:35:14 am
Jaded,
Any experience of system administration? A couple of relies don't count.

You started off with a 'friend/client' recommendation and now it's systems admin, which is a bit of a change. I believe the adage is that that good friends don't become your system admin. Leastways that's how it ought to work.

Fair point.

Jaded · « **Reply #14 on:** 11 February, 2014, 11:50:23 am »

Indeed, I'm out this thread.

And btw, my experience of some systems admin is that they are there to make sure you cannot do anything with your machine, the key role is to make sure that systems admin has a job. Actually achieving things with IT is a nono. What a silly idea!

TimC · « **Reply #15 on:** 11 February, 2014, 11:56:52 am »

OSX has decent backup through Time Machine. Obviously, on a consumer system it's quite possible to install unlicenced apps, but generally apps are accessed through the App Store, which only offers licenced apps. There are, according to a quick Google, Windows-based OSX system admin products for those organisations which run both species, but Apple have largely discontinued native OSX system admin products. There is a remote desktop facility, however, which works from an OSX computer to an OSX client.

Of course, if you want to be really nasty, you could configure the iMac as a Windows box.

Afasoas · « **Reply #16 on:** 11 February, 2014, 12:04:21 pm »

Quote from: TimC on 11 February, 2014, 11:56:52 am

OSX has decent backup through Time Machine. Obviously, on a consumer system it's quite possible to install unlicenced apps, but generally apps are accessed through the App Store, which only offers licenced apps. There are, according to a quick Google, Windows-based OSX system admin products for those organisations which run both species, but Apple have largely discontinued native OSX system admin products. There is a remote desktop facility, however, which works from an OSX computer to an OSX client.

Of course, if you want to be really nasty, you could configure the iMac as a Windows box.

Thanks Tim. That's useful to know.
I just want to make sure the machine is properly supported along with the rest of the IT infrastructure.

TimC · « **Reply #17 on:** 11 February, 2014, 12:09:36 pm »

The product which came up most frequently in the Googling I did was CoRD. I know nothing about it other than what I gleaned in the search - which was only prompted by your thread. As a Mac user, I had no idea what system admin was available. But it's certainly easy (and largely automated) to keep an OSX machine properly backed up.

davelodwig · « **Reply #18 on:** 11 February, 2014, 01:47:44 pm »

I manage a couple of iMacs on a windows network (a really big network)

They connect to the domain ok, though the functionality is fairly limited to connecting to shares and login authentication. Each machine has a disk attached with time machine on though the proper way would be to have a mac server which can act as a time machine server.

As we can't offsite the time machines very easily we tend to only protect materials kept on network drives, though the user being able to restore local documents their self makes my life easier.

Tewdric · « **Reply #19 on:** 11 February, 2014, 01:55:11 pm »

Give them a macbuntu box in a mac case!

Afasoas · « **Reply #20 on:** 11 February, 2014, 02:02:07 pm »

Thanks Tim, Dave.
I suppose only being able to remote desktop via OS X is another feather in my hat of justification for buying a Mac Mini.

Jaded · « **Reply #21 on:** 11 February, 2014, 02:07:07 pm »

I've been asked why I am out of this thread. As ian points out, the thread was a request for help with specification for a machine. For a friend/client. With no budget or specification or requirements other than "photo editing", something that Macs have been able to do since the late 80s.

Now it is about Network back-ups, Network drives, Anti Virus, User Restrictions and Remote Access. System Admin 'support'. Somewhat different.

ian · « **Reply #22 on:** 11 February, 2014, 03:07:40 pm »

Are you sure you aren't over-egging the pudding here? Unless you're doing some kind of mothership-scaled deployment it's pretty easy to set up a machine to back-up appropriate etc. and occasionally – should support be needed – do a remote desktop share. Application licence management and domains are a fairly intensive and not something I'd envision doing for a one-on-one arrangement. Frankly, if they're not an employee, then let them manage their own IT infrastructure.

(Unless you're married to them, in which case it's apparently not an option.)

Afasoas · « **Reply #23 on:** 11 February, 2014, 03:17:21 pm »

I've had some excellent advice here about purchasing a Mac and how to handle it on the domain and I'm appreciative of that.

Jaded,

My PM was more about your remarks that come across as a little caustic - and not really in the spirit of yACF. Yes some of your input is useful but I don't understand why they have to be peppered with comments about my deterring the client from buying an iMac, "meatware" or 'support'.

I have tight budget constraints to work within and when I know I can implement a PC that will meet the requirements with a considerable saving then yes, I'm going to advise* the client about this. (*but not insist)

"Client/Friend" - the two might not be advisable but they aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. The OP was a quick post and I probably should have mentioned it was a business scenario and over the last few years with this client I've gone from fixing the odd PC here and there to building a website, installing a gigabit network and now I'm in the process of building a Windows server to host a domain with ten users. The business has grown from 2 staff to nearly 10 in a very short space of time and is expecting to grow further still. I'm implementing a Windows domain. End users are varied in ability and include temporary staff to cover busy periods.

If I'm supporting end users using different hardware and software, it's important I know how to integrate it into the estate and respond quickly to failures.

I really don't know what you mean by "system admin 'support'" but in my view it's providing an IT infrastructure that enables the business to satisfy its clients and continue to grow. It means when an end user logs into a machine all of the software they need is there and ready to go. It means the IT is fast and reliable. Right now, we aren't there.

Afasoas · « **Reply #24 on:** 11 February, 2014, 03:36:06 pm »

Quote from: ian on 11 February, 2014, 03:07:40 pm

Are you sure you aren't over-egging the pudding here? Unless you're doing some kind of mothership-scaled deployment it's pretty easy to set up a machine to back-up appropriate etc. and occasionally – should support be needed – do a remote desktop share. Application licence management and domains are a fairly intensive and not something I'd envision doing for a one-on-one arrangement. Frankly, if they're not an employee, then let them manage their own IT infrastructure.

(Unless you're married to them, in which case it's apparently not an option.)

Continuing OT...

Probably re-iterating what has already been said, but the friend is a friend and the client is his business. These days I'm paid as their IT consultant. The business has gone from two to ten staff overnight.

The business has grown to about 10 staff and six PCs. There was a 100 megabit network in the building when they moved in. They set-up a desktop PC as a file server and bought new PCs on an ad-hoc basis.

As far as the iMac is concerned, I think Dave's approach of joining it to the domain for authentication and access to file shares with an external HDD for Time Machine is the way to go.

I've had pretty bad experiences with users installing their own software to date. They install Spotify, Dropbox, Teamviewer and then various trial versions of products and before long PCs that were nice and fast are running like athletes through thick soup. I'm not expecting the iMac to be the same but I think having a bare metal restore option is just good practice. I also need to know what's involved if later in the year they decide to buy a couple more.

There are often smarter ways of doing things. Instead of installing Spotify on lots of devices, use a network streamer that can be moved around the building. Or install it on a phone and connect that to PC speakers. Dropbox running on a single machine and storing it's folders on a shared drive. Use RDP (it's native) instead of Teamviewer.. it's not licensed anyway.