Sky - gaming the system?

[TigaSefi]

It won’t stop here though. Chris Froome will be hunted down till the end of time.

[ElyDave]

Probably, but then he must be guilty mustn't he?  He has won something after all, hardly the thing for a plucky BRIT to do, we leave all that stuff to Johnny Foreigner

[Torslanda]

Anyone else struck by the irony of MPs describing Team Sky's behaviour as 'unethical'?

Nothing like the scale of Cofidis, Festina, US Postal/Discovery etc. IMO

[rafletcher]

Probably, but then he must be guilty mustn't he?  He has won something after all, hardly the thing for a plucky BRIT to do, we leave all that stuff to Johnny Foreigner

And he's not even BRITISH is he?

[ElyDave]

Probably, but then he must be guilty mustn't he?  He has won something after all, hardly the thing for a plucky BRIT to do, we leave all that stuff to Johnny Foreigner

And he's not even BRITISH is he?

No, that's what makes it even worse

[sojournermike]

About time really.

Plus they’ve also landed a pretty serious body blow on Coe and a minor one on Mo Farah.

I think Sky is unethical, but importantly also hypocritical. They’ve lost a lot of friends on the way.

[joy of essex]

Anyone else struck by the irony of MPs describing Team Sky's behaviour as 'unethical'?

Nothing like the scale of Cofidis, Festina, US Postal/Discovery etc. IMO

Yes, not the worst behaviour  by any means ; one would have thought they would have learnt from Lance's mistakes. The more interesting story is that Sky brought BC . BC then neglect every other aspect of cycle sport other than that which would benefit Sky .

[Hot Flatus]

Probably, but then he must be guilty mustn't he?  He has won something after all, hardly the thing for a plucky BRIT to do, we leave all that stuff to Johnny Foreigner

You'll have to wait a week or so to find out.

Unlike Wiggins, Froome has a positive doping test against his name and will likely be banned.

[Hot Flatus]

Anyone else struck by the irony of MPs describing Team Sky's behaviour as 'unethical'?

Nothing like the scale of Cofidis, Festina, US Postal/Discovery etc. IMO

Some great misconceptions going on here.

The DCMS hearing was not about proving Sky or Wiggins guilty. Like all select committees it was about finding out whether or not the department is fit for purpose and does an effective job. From select committees come recommendations and legislative changes.

What this select committee unearthed with regards to Sky are that they have taken the piss out of the rules as they stand, but this is just one part of the picture. Another highlight is the difficulty of holding Sky to account with systems that have no teeth. This is why the recommendations of the committee are that criminalization of doping in sports should be considered, as well as recognising the underfunding of UKAD.

What Festina or Cofidis did decades ago is totally irrelevant.

[mattc]

Probably, but then he must be guilty mustn't he?  He has won something after all, hardly the thing for a plucky BRIT to do, we leave all that stuff to Johnny Foreigner

And he's not even BRITISH is he?

I'm not a Froome fan, but I can't deny he holds a British passport.

[citoyen]

The key finding seems to be that the TUE system needs to be overhauled. No shit, Sherlock.

I think they also could have gone further with their comments regarding the 'lost' medical records and the accountability of the team boss for this.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Definitely. I'm not particularly concerned about Wiggins, Froome or anyone else doping in terms of cheating, because I reckon all the top contenders are cheating in various ways and doping to whatever extent they dare. I am concerned about the official processes conniving with cheating and about the message it gives that doping is the only way, with the effect that riders competitors people at all levels and in all sports down to schoolkids are potentially doing serious damage to their health because it's the done thing.

[trekker12]

I'm getting fed up of being lied to.

They are the most successful team of their generation. Of course they used the system and rules in place to gain the best advantage they could. Any team in any sport at the top level studies the rule book for potential gains and Sky are no different. The TUE option was available and they took it.

What really bothers me is that they have backed themselves into a corner by losing computers and records and forgetting what they put in a jiffy bag.

They should point out that this is sport, a professional money oriented business in which ethics are not the first priority when you are trying to win something.

I'd have more respect if they were actually capable of saying it.

[TigaSefi]

I don’t believe there were any out and out doping but as you say, not keeping records and evident is an invitation to think the worst of people.

[Hot Flatus]

I don’t believe there were any out and out doping but as you say, not keeping records and evident is an invitation to think the worst of people.

Key word in that is 'believe.

How do you account for Froome moving from nobody to greatest GT rider of his generation in the space of weeks?

[DuncanM]

The whole Sky drugs story is screwed up because there are so many details that are missing, and what we know doesn't add up.
If it was Triamcinalone in that jiffy bag, then it's doping. They ordered loads of it, used 3 TUEs with Wiggins, and the rest has never been explained. If they just gave it to a bunch of riders with "athsma like Wiggo" then it would be on the edge of the rules but not explicitly outside them. Giant information gap.
The whole jiffy bag thing - giant information gap.
What's going on with Froome - giant information gap. 
What happened with Henao - giant information gap.

Each time there's been one of these issues, Sky have lied through their teeth, and we have only found some of the truth because of people outside Sky.

[TigaSefi]

Looks like the jiffy bag conundrum is closed: http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/latest-news/uk-anti-doping-says-jiffy-bag-case-will-remain-closed-unless-new-information-comes-light-371607

[sojournermike]

The whole Sky drugs story is screwed up because there are so many details that are missing, and what we know doesn't add up.
If it was Triamcinalone in that jiffy bag, then it's doping. They ordered loads of it, used 3 TUEs with Wiggins, and the rest has never been explained. If they just gave it to a bunch of riders with "athsma like Wiggo" then it would be on the edge of the rules but not explicitly outside them. Giant information gap.
The whole jiffy bag thing - giant information gap.
What's going on with Froome - giant information gap. 
What happened with Henao - giant information gap.

Each time there's been one of these issues, Sky have lied through their teeth, and we have only found some of the truth because of people outside Sky.

And the testosterone patches that now were apparently ordered

[rogerzilla]

I haven't read it, but does Wiggins mention asthma at all in his autobiography?  The BBC says not.

Apparently the whole Norwegian Winter Olympics team claimed a TUE for asthma...this is getting stupid.  My GP stopped giving me free flu jabs when I could make the peak flow meter hit its end stop, so it's not as if it's impossible to weed out the bullshitters.

[sojournermike]

I haven't read it, but does Wiggins mention asthma at all in his autobiography?  The BBC says not.

Apparently the whole Norwegian Winter Olympics team claimed a TUE for asthma...this is getting stupid.  My GP stopped giving me free flu jabs when I could make the peak flow meter hit its end stop, so it's not as if it's impossible to weed out the bullshitters.

There is a view that actually having asthma may contain dictate a careeer in elite sport. However, the ‘evidence’ suggests that asthma is significantly over represented in professional sports.

[simonp]

I did a 5K rowing test last week and struggled with breathing feeling tight. I would not be surprised if I’m developing exercise induced asthma. However I might just be unfit.

I also had two steroid injections last week. 

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

As long as there are completions, people will compete and use what ever means are available to them. Rules and regulations are a cat and mouse game between the governing body and the competitors, with the primary goal being to keep the playing field as level as possible so that the outcome remains unpredictable as possible so that the paying fans get a spectacle. In recent times drugs have been outlawed mainly for moral reasons, although competitive people will continue to seek whatever edge they can regardless of the harm they may be doing to themselves.
Sky are just the latest outfit to be called out for using the regulations to their advantage, mainly because they have been more effective at it than everyone else for too long now.
I note with some cynicism that other teams and professionals are keeping their collective heads down.

That's probably true.  I'd a colleague who was into body building and took steroids quite openly, knowing he didn't oughtta.  Just vanity.

At the same time I know someone whose illness forces him to take the things and other drugs and wishes he didn't.  Life isn't fair. 

[sg37409]

Should be able to get a great discount on team sky kit and pinarello bikes now 
I may retire my old Festina top now

[LEE]

For me it comes down to this:

David Walsh: ‘Team Sky said judge us by higher standards, they haven’t lived up to them'

Brailsford set the bar high so he has nobody to blame other than himself.  "Higher standards" would have meant going public with TUE use.  Yes, i know they don't want other teams to know but I'm afraid that is a consequence of having higher standards.

I fear for Froome's safety in France, if he's allowed to take part.

[Hot Flatus]

Just remember everyone...Sky refused to join the MPCC (who do not allow Cortisone use) because Sky hold themselves to higher standards