The TT Thread

[drossall]

… train hard and get off the cake…

I sometimes wonder whether what's killing it is the training.

Of course it would be daft to argue that no-one should train. But the ethos of time trialling in the past seemed to be that you could turn up and try it. And some people at least appeared to ride with the club, go touring, and then race for fun. If you liked it, then you started training. Maybe.

The image now, I think, is that not only do you need to have a £10k bike unlike anything you can find in Halfords (or any other shop you've ever seen), but also you need to have spent £100s on a bike-fitting session, three years training, and got the services of a coach, before you should even think about turning up. At least, that's how Cycling Weekly depicts it. You might of course apply a similar argument to road and track, which aren't in quite the same state, but that's still how it feels to me.

But then, I always thought of training as a mild form of cheating, i.e. something I would never stoop to, and that probably explains some of my results

[Kim]

But then, I always thought of training as a mild form of cheating, i.e. something I would never stoop to, and that probably explains some of my results

The BHPC is that way --> 

[Notfromrugby]

… train hard and get off the cake…

I sometimes wonder whether what's killing it is the training.

Of course it would be daft to argue that no-one should train. But the ethos of time trialling in the past seemed to be that you could turn up and try it. And some people at least appeared to ride with the club, go touring, and then race for fun. If you liked it, then you started training. Maybe.

The image now, I think, is that not only do you need to have a £10k bike unlike anything you can find in Halfords (or any other shop you've ever seen), but also you need to have spent £100s on a bike-fitting session, three years training, and got the services of a coach, before you should even think about turning up. At least, that's how Cycling Weekly depicts it. You might of course apply a similar argument to road and track, which aren't in quite the same state, but that's still how it feels to me.

But then, I always thought of training as a mild form of cheating, i.e. something I would never stoop to, and that probably explains some of my results

Maybe, but people do like training.
TT has lost almost a third of rides in the last few years, Hill Climb, which is a branch of the sport, only 5%. Two fundamental differences: the latter doesn’t require fancy equipment and you won’t look out of place with a road bike and it’s W/kg, a language most cyclists are familiar with already. TT has probably become caught up in too much pseudo science.

[drossall]

Maybe, but people do like training.

Of course. It's just that I think it should be try it first, then train to get better, not the other way around. Cycling seems to be particularly prone to reversing things. But that may just be me trying to get out of doing it properly

[Notfromrugby]

Maybe, but people do like training.

Of course. It's just that I think it should be try it first, then train to get better, not the other way around. Cycling seems to be particularly prone to reversing things. But that may just be me trying to get out of doing it properly

No, I think you are right

[peterc]

training as a mild form of cheating

The BHPC is that way -->

While I spent little time with the BHPC (and never inhaled) I was under the impression that training was allowed but considered much less effective than all the other better ways of going faster, like engineering.

[mattc]

Based on yesterday's District meeting, this is 50:50 to go through:. The objections being almost entirely that they wouldn't be "safe" on many of our courses.
(Because  visibility, mainly. Some paranoia about downhill speeds too. )

I don't understand why they are considered safe enough to ride on public roads, but not safe enough to race on public roads on the grounds of visibility...

It's funny that YOU say that ...

Because the people objecting on "safety" grounds were the same people who wanted safety hats for riding on the public highway in CTT events.

[Notfromrugby]

Based on yesterday's District meeting, this is 50:50 to go through:. The objections being almost entirely that they wouldn't be "safe" on many of our courses.
(Because  visibility, mainly. Some paranoia about downhill speeds too. )

I don't understand why they are considered safe enough to ride on public roads, but not safe enough to race on public roads on the grounds of visibility...

It's funny that YOU say that ...

Because the people objecting on "safety" grounds were the same people who wanted safety hats for riding on the public highway in CTT events.

It’s not that I wanted them, but it did make sense to go with the flow. All other competitive events require them, so why not TT? More to the point, I don’t see why this had to be a deal breaker… anyway, pointless to reopen a can of worms.

[Mr Larrington]

training as a mild form of cheating

The BHPC is that way -->

While I spent little time with the BHPC (and never inhaled) I was under the impression that training was allowed but considered much less effective than all the other better ways of going faster, like engineering.

Training: riding to the pub
Advanced training: riding to a different pub a bit further away

[peterc]

a different pub a bit further away

Oooh, do they have good beer there?

[Ian H]

training as a mild form of cheating

The BHPC is that way -->

While I spent little time with the BHPC (and never inhaled) I was under the impression that training was allowed but considered much less effective than all the other better ways of going faster, like engineering.

Training: riding to the pub
Advanced training: riding to a different pub a bit further away

We do that each Wednesday, but in an upright fashion (even homeward).

[mattc]

Based on yesterday's District meeting, this is 50:50 to go through:. The objections being almost entirely that they wouldn't be "safe" on many of our courses.
(Because  visibility, mainly. Some paranoia about downhill speeds too. )

I don't understand why they are considered safe enough to ride on public roads, but not safe enough to race on public roads on the grounds of visibility...

It's funny that YOU say that ...

Because the people objecting on "safety" grounds were the same people who wanted safety hats for riding on the public highway in CTT events.

It’s not that I wanted them, but it did make sense to go with the flow. All other competitive events require them, so why not TT? More to the point, I don’t see why this had to be a deal breaker… anyway, pointless to reopen a can of worms.

I guarantee you'd take a different view on something that impacted on YOU! :⁠-⁠D

[Cudzoziemiec]

training as a mild form of cheating

The BHPC is that way -->

While I spent little time with the BHPC (and never inhaled) I was under the impression that training was allowed but considered much less effective than all the other better ways of going faster, like engineering.

Training: riding to the pub
Advanced training: riding to a different pub a bit further away

We do that each Wednesday, but in an upright fashion (even homeward).

The finest sort of training.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

I used to ride a few TTs, initial as training for PBP, and then for the sake of it (and scratch the 24-hour itch - which is now satisfactority scratched and not itching again).  I'm thinking about a couple of TTs again next year as PBP prep, but I've found I've lost the appetite for riding on busy roads. 

It's possible that's just a sign of age, but I wonder if another factor is that cars have got a lot bigger in the last 10 years and with more automation, drivers have got less attentive on the fast TT courses (cruise control, lane departure warning, etc keeps them safe but not us). 

Hill climbs feel safer - lower speeds - and  more people by the side of the road which alerts most motorists to the presence of cyclists.

[Notfromrugby]

Hill climbs feel safer - lower speeds - and  more people by the side of the road which alerts most motorists to the presence of cyclists.

Hill climbs are better in any possible way, but it's a very short season...

[drossall]

I guarantee you'd take a different view on something that impacted on YOU! :⁠-⁠D

Like costing you the chance to participate for half a season. Or at all, if you're even less lucky than me. But all this is expounded up-thread, and NFR was part of that discussion then.

[MattH]

I used to ride TTs, though it says a lot that my PB on a 10 was on my steel Audax bike, complete with mudguards, dynohub and saddlebag. I've done a couple of 24s, and quite a few on a tandem. But I dropped out of my local club when they made magic foam compulsory for Sunday cafe rides, and haven't done a TT since CTT brought in the rule.

Actually, that's not quite true - I did ride a few international TTs earlier this year around Wolverhampton wearing a lid and riding a >£10K bike. But I was on an escort moto not competing myself 

[Notfromrugby]

The main issue with TTs is that most of the times they are still very old fashioned and it’s difficult to involve the new generations. Distances which are often too long, courses which are way too busy with fast traffic, course codes that are not explained, a historic tendency to operate in secret and yes, people who moan because they want wind in their hair, like it was back in the days.
There are more rides by the over 70s than there are by the under 20s… that is frightening!
There is at least one local club who operates differently, although they do so under TLI rather than CTT. Their average age is considerably younger, they don’t use dual carriages and their numbers are very healthy. They even manage to attract decent numbers at their Open, which has a proper double figure hill in the middle.

[De Sisti]

The main issue with TTs is that most of the times they are still very old fashioned and it’s difficult to involve the new generations. Distances which are often too long, courses which are way too busy with fast traffic, course codes that are not explained,,,,

There is at least one local club who operates differently, although they do so under TLI rather than CTT. Their average age is considerably younger, they don’t use dual carriages and their numbers are very healthy. They even manage to attract decent numbers at their Open, which has a proper double figure hill in the middle.

Please name this club.

[Notfromrugby]

The main issue with TTs is that most of the times they are still very old fashioned and it’s difficult to involve the new generations. Distances which are often too long, courses which are way too busy with fast traffic, course codes that are not explained,,,,

There is at least one local club who operates differently, although they do so under TLI rather than CTT. Their average age is considerably younger, they don’t use dual carriages and their numbers are very healthy. They even manage to attract decent numbers at their Open, which has a proper double figure hill in the middle.

Please name this club.

Banbury Star

[De Sisti]

Banbury Star

Nice one. Thank you.

[Kim]

The main issue with TTs is that most of the times they are still very old fashioned and it’s difficult to involve the new generations. Distances which are often too long, courses which are way too busy with fast traffic, course codes that are not explained, a historic tendency to operate in secret and yes, people who moan because they want wind in their hair, like it was back in the days.
There are more rides by the over 70s than there are by the under 20s… that is frightening!

I don't claim to be fast, or even young, and my TT experience is inna BHPC trying-not-to-wipe-out-going-clockwise-round-the-hairpin-at-Darley-Moor style.  But while I'm happy to mix with traffic at audax pace, the prospect of trying to ride flat out while maintaining awareness of  a) traffic  and  2) dubious road surfaces  really does not appeal.

[Notfromrugby]

The main issue with TTs is that most of the times they are still very old fashioned and it’s difficult to involve the new generations. Distances which are often too long, courses which are way too busy with fast traffic, course codes that are not explained, a historic tendency to operate in secret and yes, people who moan because they want wind in their hair, like it was back in the days.
There are more rides by the over 70s than there are by the under 20s… that is frightening!

I don't claim to be fast, or even young, and my TT experience is inna BHPC trying-not-to-wipe-out-going-clockwise-round-the-hairpin-at-Darley-Moor style.  But while I'm happy to mix with traffic at audax pace, the prospect of trying to ride flat out while maintaining awareness of  a) traffic  and  2) dubious road surfaces  really does not appeal.

It’s not just you… last spring they held the National road bike championship on the A46 dual carriage east of Nottingham. There were a handful of juniors who signed up… a handful between boys and girls… that’s how many parents were prepared to send their kids to race a National championship on that stretch of road… and yet, when I tell my club mates that it’s time to move away from the DualCarriages in our series to attract new riders, they come up with nonsense like horse riders on the lanes or the dangers of a T junction… basically old fashioned crap

[Kim]

To be fair, I wouldn't want to meet a horse or T-junction at speeds in excess of R17 either.  But there's surely some middle ground.

[felstedrider]

The main issue with TTs is that most of the times they are still very old fashioned and it’s difficult to involve the new generations. Distances which are often too long, courses which are way too busy with fast traffic, course codes that are not explained, a historic tendency to operate in secret and yes, people who moan because they want wind in their hair, like it was back in the days.
There are more rides by the over 70s than there are by the under 20s… that is frightening!

I don't claim to be fast, or even young, and my TT experience is inna BHPC trying-not-to-wipe-out-going-clockwise-round-the-hairpin-at-Darley-Moor style.  But while I'm happy to mix with traffic at audax pace, the prospect of trying to ride flat out while maintaining awareness of  a) traffic  and  2) dubious road surfaces  really does not appeal.

It's interesting.   I have never felt unsafe racing on a DC.   I have used the E2, B courses on the A11 and H courses on the A31.   I never raced Etwall which is the other 'fast' piece of road popular with testers.   When you are flying along at 30mph you don't seem to notice.

I have, however, marshalled a few times and the behaviour and speed of traffic has scared me.   It must be down to perception.

My helpers on the Mersey 24 said the roads felt very busy but I never noticed it when racing.