Sometimes cyclists are the baddies....

[Redlight]

In some parts of the US you'll come across segregated cycle and skater lanes next to each other.  From my limited experience of using them, in LA, each respects the other and pedestrians don't wander into either.  It shouldn't be necessary though, in the same way it shouldn't be necessary to have separate cycle lanes at all.

[Honest John]

Skaters don't "walk" along the path with their feet moving backwards and forwards like a runner, their feet come back and out to the sides. If they are moving quite fast, they can counterbalance this as well by leaning out to one side or throwing their arms out. A skater might therefore move in a long S shape with quite deep side kicks. If they use up all of the path doing this, then they can be impossible to pass safely.

+1

Waiting until you can pass someone is one thing. Being stuck behind them because of this behaviour for 100 metres or more is another.

[Honest John]

If they're not riding a bicycle/tricycle/'bent, then they should not be in the cycle lane. I am one of those who finds skaters/bladers/skateboarders etc' a bloody dangerous nuisance in cycle lanes, and when passing I WILL ask them 'Where's your bicycle?'

This argument differs quite a bit from motons' 'cyclists shouldn't be in the road' because roads are not called 'car lanes' and are not built specifically for cars.

+1

[nuttycyclist]

It's true that bicycle bells can sound alarmingly loud when you're close to one.  I suppose this can be mistaken for aggression even when none is intended.

With most bells, you can minimise the volume by giving the lever only a gentle push/pull, or mute it by touching the dome.

This is why I don't have bells on most bikes.    "Excuse me" is sufficient when on a path, and cannot be seen as aggressive.  Bells are pointless against cars in the road.

I hate bells, and really get wound up when cyclists come up behind me ringing them.  I don't lean on the car hooter everytime I catch up a slower road user, so no need to start doing that when cycling.

[mattc]

I hate bells, and really get wound up when cyclists come up behind me ringing them.  I don't lean on the car hooter everytime I catch up a slower road user, so no need to start doing that when cycling.

Why do you hate them? (I could understand if they made a noise like a car horn!)

There are very few more pleasant noises on our highways and byways (made by humans, anyways).

[AndyK]

I ring my bell to let people know I'm approaching, not to say 'Get out of the way'.

[Wowbagger]

Why do you want them to know you are approaching?

[AndyK]

Why do you want them to know you are approaching?

Because if I pass them and they step or cycle into me the first thing said will be 'Why didn't you ring your bell?'

[Wendy]

If they're not riding a bicycle/tricycle/'bent, then they should not be in the cycle lane. I am one of those who finds skaters/bladers/skateboarders etc' a bloody dangerous nuisance in cycle lanes, and when passing I WILL ask them 'Where's your bicycle?'

This argument differs quite a bit from motons' 'cyclists shouldn't be in the road' because roads are not called 'car lanes' and are not built specifically for cars.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/l1JIRn0UPyE&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/l1JIRn0UPyE&rel=1</a>

That's not really any different to a car driver telling you to get on the cycle path, and just as wrong.  That would be justification for a submission to Silly Cyclists, IMO.

OTOH that skater you filmed there was not being particularly responsible. Bit of a silly skater really. AlexB will be amused to note that I don't know him. 

[AndyK]

That's not really any different to a car driver telling you to get on the cycle path, and just as wrong. 

It's VERY different. Roads are not called car paths, or car lanes or car tracks, because they are not specifically for cars. CYCLE lanes CYCLE tracks and CYCLE paths on the other hand ARE specifically for cyclists.

[nuttycyclist]

I hate bells, and really get wound up when cyclists come up behind me ringing them.  I don't lean on the car hooter everytime I catch up a slower road user, so no need to start doing that when cycling.

Why do you hate them? (I could understand if they made a noise like a car horn!)

There are very few more pleasant noises on our highways and byways (made by humans, anyways).

Walking along a path, enjoying the birdsong and peace and quiet, then jump out of my boots with

DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING

coming up from behind.

I ring my bell to let people know I'm approaching, not to say 'Get out of the way'.

A common soundtrack to your seafront cycle path videos is DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING.    Sorry to say this, but I end up muting the laptop usually.


In the same way that fire alarms are pitched to hurt the ears and discourage anybody staying in the building, I find that DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING  makes my head RING RING RING RING and it is something that really winds me up.



I have a bell on one bike, it gives a lower pitched "ding dong" when rung.  I rarely use even that (saying "hello", or "excuse me" is much more polite) but "ding dong" from a distance away is much more pleasant than how most cyclists use a bell - DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING.   (If you must DING, then that's enough, DING DING is starting to push it, and DING DING DING is just way too far)

[nuttycyclist]

That's not really any different to a car driver telling you to get on the cycle path, and just as wrong.  That would be justification for a submission to Silly Cyclists, IMO.

Agreed.  Sorry, but true.

I was amused to see
a) no bell was rung*
b) fast and close pass.





*

Why do you want them to know you are approaching?

Because if I pass them and they step or cycle into me the first thing said will be 'Why didn't you ring your bell?'

[/size]

[Wendy]

It's VERY different. Roads are not called car paths, or car lanes or car tracks, because they are not specifically for cars. CYCLE lanes CYCLE tracks and CYCLE paths on the other hand ARE specifically for cyclists.

No it's not, skaters are also HPVs and are perfectly entitled to use the cycle lane.  I feel a lot less entitlement and much more tolerance will make your road and cycle lane sharing a much more pleasant and fair experience for everyone.  We saw that same sense of unfair entitlement when it came to the rowing club example.

[Biggsy]

When in pedestrian mode, I don't mind what is efectively a polite request to allow someone to pass who is travelling faster than me, or as a warning that someone is coming along: effectively a request to not suddenly dart sideways.

I went for a long long time without a ding a ling (stoppit), and still don't have a bell on one of my bikes (for space/weight saving), but I realised again how useful they can be after one came with my Brompton.  It was integrated with the gear shifter, and very small and light, so wasn't worth removing (which I might have done instantly otherwise).

I find a bell most useful on roads - to make some more pedestrians notice me instead of step out in front of me, particularly at the corners of left turns (for me).  It doesn't make it safer.  It just means I go faster when I reckon there's a high chance that I've been seen.  I don't rely on them to hear me, I only change my actions if hearing me as made them turn to look.

So it's a convenience device, not safety device.  I'm not ashamed to increase my convenience, within reason.  SPARING use of a bell is reasonable.

[AndyK]

I ring my bell to let people know I'm approaching, not to say 'Get out of the way'.

A common soundtrack to your seafront cycle path videos is DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING.    Sorry to say this, but I end up muting the laptop usually.


In the same way that fire alarms are pitched to hurt the ears and discourage anybody staying in the building, I find that DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING  makes my head RING RING RING RING and it is something that really winds me up.



I have a bell on one bike, it gives a lower pitched "ding dong" when rung.  I rarely use even that (saying "hello", or "excuse me" is much more polite) but "ding dong" from a distance away is much more pleasant than how most cyclists use a bell - DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING.   (If you must DING, then that's enough, DING DING is starting to push it, and DING DING DING is just way too far)

And if those you are trying to warn of your approach take no notice? Is it better to approach in silence and risk a collision - at whatever speed someone will be hurt - or is it better to do the best you can to let them know you are approaching? In the video posted if I had been stationary that idiot would have skated straight into me, I did not see his headphones until he passed, so I had to do all I could to get his attention.

[AndyK]

It's VERY different. Roads are not called car paths, or car lanes or car tracks, because they are not specifically for cars. CYCLE lanes CYCLE tracks and CYCLE paths on the other hand ARE specifically for cyclists.

No it's not, skaters are also HPVs and are perfectly entitled to use the cycle lane.  I feel a lot less entitlement and much more tolerance will make your road and cycle lane sharing a much more pleasant and fair experience for everyone.  We saw that same sense of unfair entitlement when it came to the rowing club example.

It is not called an HPV Lane, it is called a CYCLE Lane. If you're not on a cycle don't be in it.

[Wendy]

This is why I don't have bells on most bikes.    "Excuse me" is sufficient when on a path, and cannot be seen as aggressive.  Bells are pointless against cars in the road.

I hate bells, and really get wound up when cyclists come up behind me ringing them.  I don't lean on the car hooter everytime I catch up a slower road user, so no need to start doing that when cycling.

Well said Nutty.  I feel much the same way as you do, and so often bells are used in the same way and with the same aggression as car horns. I think it's you who got me into talking politely to path users, and it's the obvious best and nicest approach, combined with the slow down and take care.

I see quite a few pedestrians who react negatively to a bell being rung, btw.  Maybe they've been trained that way by bad cyclists?

[Wendy]

It is not called an HPV Lane, it is called a CYCLE Lane. If you're not on a cycle don't be in it.

Why are you so intolerant and unsharing? You are the same as the car drivers who tell you to get off the road.  You don't have any right to tell skaters to get out of the cycle lane, nor pedestrians either.  Waay too much sense of entitlement, IMO.

[AndyK]

It is not called an HPV Lane, it is called a CYCLE Lane. If you're not on a cycle don't be in it.

Why are you so intolerant and unsharing? You are the same as the car drivers who tell you to get off the road.  You don't have any right to tell skaters to get out of the cycle lane, nor pedestrians either.  Waay too much sense of entitlement, IMO.

Why are you so anti-cyclist? Wouldn't you be better over on the Top Gear forum pontificating on why cyclists should take second place to everyone else not only on roads but in cycle lanes too?

[Snakehips]

I see quite a few pedestrians who react negatively to a bell being rung, btw.  Maybe they've been trained that way by bad cyclists?

Or maybe they have 'Waay too much sense of entitlement' to be wherever they choose to be.

[nuttycyclist]

....
And if those you are trying to warn of your approach take no notice? Is it better to approach in silence and risk a collision - at whatever speed someone will be hurt - or is it better to do the best you can to let them know you are approaching? In the video posted if I had been stationary that idiot would have skated straight into me, I did not see his headphones until he passed, so I had to do all I could to get his attention.

I tend to slow down and do whatever I can to avoid a collision.  I believe that is my duty.

Even if I had a bell*  then I wouldn't rely on the fact I'd rung it as a guarantee the pedestrian/cyclist had heard it.   It's the same as when driving, if I need to alert somebody to my presence (e.g. motorist reversing out of driveway) then I don't hoot and keep the right foot down, I hoot and prepare to stop/take evasive action.





*(Biggsy had just reminded me I have one on each of the Bromptons - that's how rarely I use them!)

[nuttycyclist]

I see quite a few pedestrians who react negatively to a bell being rung, btw.  Maybe they've been trained that way by bad cyclists?

Or maybe they have 'Waay too much sense of entitlement' to be wherever they choose to be.

I've had this before, coming over the Humber Bridge on the way to Southend and slowing in order to carefully avoid the pedestrians ahead.  I was just about to say "excuse me" when the cyclist behind started up that ruddy DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING


The pedestrians jumped out of their skin, as I would have done too in their place, and believing me to have been the source of the racket gave me a real earful re not being considerate and sharing the space.   Since it was a shared use path, I fully agreed with them.    I just wish the cyclist responsible for the racket had taken the earbashing instead.

[Wendy]

Why are you so anti-cyclist? Wouldn't you be better over on the Top Gear forum pontificating on why cyclists should take second place to everyone else not only on roads but in cycle lanes too?

And yet that is so not like me.  You'll remember that video where you got a lot of comments about riding in the door zone, and deleted them all.  IIRC we all suggested that you should have taken the lane there, and that you had priority over the driver, and that the driver was pretty poor for left hooking you.  That doesn't match with your comment above.

Skaters have just as much responsibility to look out for others - as might have been missed, I agree that the skater you filmed was using the path badly there.  Skating backwards, using more than half of it, and not looking properly.  OTOH, Nutty's point about your fast and close pass on him is just as valid.

[Wendy]

I see quite a few pedestrians who react negatively to a bell being rung, btw.  Maybe they've been trained that way by bad cyclists?

Or maybe they have 'Waay too much sense of entitlement' to be wherever they choose to be.

Isn't that the delights and enlightened approach of the UK?  Pedestrians can go just about everywhere with few exceptions, and rightfully so.

What amazes me is how a number of people on this topic just refuse to recognise quite how bad a minority of cyclists can be.

[AndyK]

Why are you so anti-cyclist? Wouldn't you be better over on the Top Gear forum pontificating on why cyclists should take second place to everyone else not only on roads but in cycle lanes too?

And yet that is so not like me.  You'll remember that video where you got a lot of comments about riding in the door zone, and deleted them all.  IIRC we all suggested that you should have taken the lane there, and that you had priority over the driver, and that the driver was pretty poor for left hooking you.  That doesn't match with your comment above.

Skaters have just as much responsibility to look out for others - as might have been missed, I agree that the skater you filmed was using the path badly there.  Skating backwards, using more than half of it, and not looking properly.  OTOH, Nutty's point about your fast and close pass on him is just as valid.

I deleted the comments because I was not riding in the door zone, but people were too stupid to comprehend a wide angle lens, and the discussion was detracting from the real issue of being left-hooked.