Cyclists 'don't obey road laws'

[Pingu]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7497432.stm

Seems to be an article in response to Pedestrian killed by cyclist

ABD rep:

You can't tar the whole lot with the same brush

Then of course proceeds to do just that.

[MSeries]

The killer wasn't on the road,

[Jethro]

I see motorists every day breaking the law

[clarion]

Absolutely.

[Regulator]

The killer wasn't on the road,

Errr.... if you mean the recent court case involving the cyclist and 17 year old girl, then he was.  The court found that he was on the road.

[pcolbeck]

Cyclists red light jump and ride on the pavements because it is seen as acceptable to do so. Even the police seem to do it. They certainly wont stop you from riding on the pavement. When I was a kid you would have been told to get on the road and would have been stopped from riding through a pedestrian zone. We don't actually need new laws just enforce the existing ones.

[clarion]

No comments posted yet

*braces for barrage of frothing-mouthed taxi-drivers*

[blackpuddinonnabike]

You can't tar the whole lot with the same brush

Then of course proceeds to do just that.

Yeah, I loved that.

Hugh Bladen, from the Association of British Drivers, certainly thinks so.

"They are a rule unto themselves, to put it bluntly," he said.

"You can't tar the whole lot with the same brush, but the number of people who cycle on the pavement, ride up one-way streets the wrong way or dodge red lights is quite extraordinary.

"We should all obey the rules of the road but unfortunately cyclists have got to the stage now where they don't observe them at all."

But then the ABD are certifiable nutters.

[TheLurker]

No comments posted yet
*braces for barrage of frothing-mouthed taxi-drivers*

You assume that taxi-drivers are sufficiently far up the evolutionary greasy pole to be able to read.  Their driving skills would suggest otherwise.

[Regulator]

Hugh Bladen, from the Association of British Drivers, certainly thinks so.

"They are a rule unto themselves, to put it bluntly," he said.

"You can't tar the whole lot with the same brush, but the number of people who drive on the pavement, drive (or reverse) up one-way streets the wrong way or jump red lights is quite extraordinary.

"We should all obey the rules of the road but unfortunately drivers have got to the stage now where they don't observe them at all."

Sound familiar?

[pcolbeck]

I would say the percentage of cyclist who ride on the pavement is far higher than the percentage of car drivers.

[blackpuddinonnabike]

I would say the percentage of cyclist who ride on the pavement is far higher than the percentage of car drivers.

If we want to use typical actions of either group you could probably use speeding, using mobile phones and not indicating for the drivers.

There are eejits on either side, but one (despite the recent case and fine receiving so much publicity) is more likely to kill than the other.

Though personally I reckon just stick by the rules, but maybe I'm too courteous for my own good.

[Regulator]

I would say the percentage of cyclist who ride on the pavement is far higher than the percentage of car drivers.

Let me show you round Stamdford Hill, or other such areas of London.  You'd be bloody surprised!

When people park on the pavement, how does the car get there, other than being driven on the pavement?

[clarion]

More pedestrians are KSId by drivers on the pavements than by cyclists.

[clarion]

I would say the percentage of cyclist who ride on the pavement is far higher than the percentage of car drivers.

Let me show you round Stamdford Hill, or other such areas of London.  You'd be bloody surprised!

When people park on the pavement, how does the car get there, other than being driven on the pavement?

I did draw Police attention to this, but they said that, unless they saw the car driving on the footway themselves, they couldn't charge, as there was no indication of how a car came to be parked there

[pcolbeck]

Parking on the pavement is different than driving along the pavement.

[phil d]

"the number of people who drive on the pavement, drive (or reverse) up one-way streets the wrong way or jump red lights is quite extraordinary" is an interesting observation.  One has to assume it is not referring to cyclists, as I don't think I have ever seen a cyclist reversing - the wrong way up a one way street or otherwise.

[audaxer]

This whole car vs bike thing - cyclists will never ever win this.

Cars pollute, they're noisy, and they kill and maim thousands upon thousands of people every year - but we put up with all that because they're so damn useful.

Hell, the Merkins have waged two wars alledgely over 4000 9/11 deaths; how many wars are they fighting for the 120,000 they KSI on their roads every year?

Cyclists, horse riders and Peds will never stand a chance against such breathtaking levels of denial.

[Regulator]

Just to point out that in 2006 there were 28,139 incidents in which pedestrians were injured by a vehicle (including minor injuries) - in only 202 cases was the vehicle a bicycle.

Unfortunately, there is no reliable data about whether these were on the road or the pavement - it isn't centrally recorded.

[Regulator]

"the number of people who drive on the pavement, drive (or reverse) up one-way streets the wrong way or jump red lights is quite extraordinary" is an interesting observation.  One has to assume it is not referring to cyclists, as I don't think I have ever seen a cyclist reversing - the wrong way up a one way street or otherwise.

Sorry - I had just fiddled with the ABD quote to show that the criticisms made of cyclists can also be levelled at motorists.

[phil d]

"the number of people who drive on the pavement, drive (or reverse) up one-way streets the wrong way or jump red lights is quite extraordinary" is an interesting observation.  One has to assume it is not referring to cyclists, as I don't think I have ever seen a cyclist reversing - the wrong way up a one way street or otherwise.

Sorry - I had just fiddled with the ABD quote to show that the criticisms made of cyclists can also be levelled at motorists.

Ah - I missed the point a bit, then didn't I?

[Dave]

Just to point out that in 2006 there were 28,139 incidents in which pedestrians were injured by a vehicle (including minor injuries) - in only 202 cases was the vehicle a bicycle.

How does that ratio compare to the number of miles travelled by bikes compared to vehicles (or the number of journeys (or the number of 'vehicles' compared to the number of bikes))?

As a standalone ratio, I don't think it's necessarily telling the whole story.

[mattc]

Just to point out that in 2006 there were 28,139 incidents in which pedestrians were injured by a vehicle (including minor injuries) - in only 202 cases was the vehicle a bicycle.

How does that ratio compare to the number of miles travelled by bikes compared to vehicles (or the number of journeys (or the number of 'vehicles' compared to the number of bikes))?

As a standalone ratio, I don't think it's necessarily telling the whole story.

Dave,
that could work both ways. How many peds are there on motorways or fast DCs? Do you think peds are more or less careful in the presence of bikes, or cars?

Also, if you HAD to choose, which would you rather be struck by?

[I'm really struggling to steer this topic away from the other, tragic thread, which is highly relevant here.]

[drossall]

The whole debate is held as though cyclists were some other group. This is rubbish, and on the garbage in, garbage out principle, if you don't understand the problem first you aren't likely to produce an effective solution.

Cyclists are motorists on bikes. Common sense confirms this. Of course someone reading this is bound to reply that they don't have a driving licence, but if we asked all participants here to declare the answer to that question, we all know what would happen*.

So a more useful question is, do motorists behave differently when they climb onto bikes, and if so, why? And if they do, does that betray a false belief that a bike is not a proper vehicle? And if so, does that affect how, when they are driving, motorists in turn treat bikes?

I'm reluctant to comment in detail on the very sad case above, as I only know what has appeared in newspapers, and that's probably not very accurate. However, 17mph is clearly not fast in general, since 18mph is the speed at which cyclists should move off cycle paths onto roads. Others have made the very good point that having a reasonable expectation that others should move out of the way does not of itself mean that you should not yourself do everything possible to prevent an accident - and it's not clear that the cyclist did. And maybe this supports the idea that bad cycling should earn penalty points on a driving licence? (Because it's 99:1 that the cyclist involved is also a motorist.)

*I'll start. I'm drossall, and I've got a driving licence.

[Jaded]

80% of drivers admit to breaking the law.

Now that is extraordinary.