Author Topic: Pooley's Petition for a Women's TdF  (Read 8568 times)

mattc

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Re: Pooley's Petition for a Women's TdF
« Reply #100 on: April 03, 2014, 06:31:18 pm »
https://www.facebook.com/GirlsBikes
(I shan't name he who shared this ... )

A very eye-catching page - lots of 'empowered' female riders -  but I'm not convinced the message is quite right  :-\

Has never ridden RAAM
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No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

jane

  • Mad pie-hating female
Re: Pooley's Petition for a Women's TdF
« Reply #101 on: April 21, 2014, 03:24:55 pm »
As I am a rather unreconstructed second wave feminist, the very term "Girls" raises my hackles when applied to fully grown women.  And I am afraid my hackles raised to an extreme high point,  on further viewing of this Facebook page ...I don't know who set it up, but it reminds me of those tacky calendars one of my uncles used to have in his car repair workshop...and I don't find it particularly empowering at all...just one more example of how women's achievement anywhere can be reduced to a bit of soft sexual tittilation, which won't inspire or empower the vast majority of my sex in any way whatsoever.  Merely remind them that, for many men, their sole purpose is to provide a bit of slightly sexually arousing "eye candy" and not much else.  And if someone tells me it's women who have set up the page themselves, that makes no difference at all to my perception of it.

jane

  • Mad pie-hating female

TimC

  • Bike pilot
Re: Pooley's Petition for a Women's TdF
« Reply #103 on: April 21, 2014, 03:54:07 pm »
I read that article and originally agreed that it seemed a bit odd. Then I thought about it a bit more. What may be a hobby for Pooley is most definitely professional sport for most of those she competes against. The fact that women's triathlon pays better than women's cycling almost certainly reflects the value that commercial sponsors put on (and the revenue they get from) triathlon as opposed to cycling. And why shouldn't it pay more? There's no rule that says different sports should pay similar prize money! If women's triathlon can generate more dosh than women's cycling, that probably says something about both sports - and it may be similar in men's versions of those sports, at least if you exclude the ProTour, which has perhaps become somewhat detached from the rest of cycling.

mattc

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Re: Pooley's Petition for a Women's TdF
« Reply #104 on: April 21, 2014, 05:41:23 pm »
(So she wins marathons, and gets on triathlon podiums. I ought to dig out the thread about natural running ability correlating with cycling ability. But never mind ... )

I think TimC has it about right., When you look at the commercial "value" in sport, anything can happen. Cricketers are paid better for 20-over games than the 5-day form.
And women earn more for a set of tennis than men. I'm sure we could find more "oddities" ...
Has never ridden RAAM
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No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

jane

  • Mad pie-hating female
Re: Pooley's Petition for a Women's TdF
« Reply #105 on: April 21, 2014, 05:52:12 pm »
I confess I know very little about triathlon...so I guess if she is competing against professional triathletes, and if the prize money differentials between professional triathletes of either sex are not great than maybe that isn't quite so unfair as it may seem. 
Don't quite know why people make so much out of the five set three set thing in tennis though. On the professional circuit, men play best-of-five-set matches only at four Grand Slam tournaments, Davis Cup,  the Olympic Games and best-of-three-set matches at all other tournaments.  So, I don't think that can be used as an example of superior rates of pay really.

mattc

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Re: Pooley's Petition for a Women's TdF
« Reply #106 on: April 21, 2014, 05:58:31 pm »
Those are the highest profile, highest status, and highest paying competitions.
Has never ridden RAAM
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No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Pooley's Petition for a Women's TdF
« Reply #107 on: April 21, 2014, 11:45:26 pm »
Triathlon prize money is generally the same for men & women, and in the long distance events that Emma does it's pretty much the same event too - either an all-in start, or enough of a stagger on the start that the faster women swimmers can't distort their own race by drafting on the feet of the faster blokes.
I think her results last year and this were 5th in Ironman Switzerland, 3rd in the Phillipines, and 1st in the Swissman xtreme triathlon (Gotthard, Furka and Grimsel passes on the bike leg, and the last 8km of the marathon averaging 12.5%), against the pro triathletes.

There's no gender divide in triathlon because it's a new sport, starting at a time when it was considered normal for women to compete in sport, and women competed right from the start (almost).

The problem in cycling is that there's a chicken and egg situation - there's minimal sponsorship because there's no brand exposure on races that aren't televised and have minimal press coverage (not because Quickstep think they will sell more flooring sponsoring men rather than women), and the races can't be grown without income to pay for TV bikes etc.

What to do about it is the question.
I'd take the view that the UCI should use the ranking systems - points available on a race derived from the riders taking part, and lump men's & women's teams and events in together, so the Ronde would give more ranking points than Roubaix for example, 'cos it runs a women's event, and if a team runs both men's and women's teams (as Rabobank did), lump the points together when deciding Pro Tour qualification or whatever.

mattc

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Re: Pooley's Petition for a Women's TdF
« Reply #108 on: May 22, 2014, 10:39:32 pm »
Trott positive about womens road racing, but not about TdeF:

"
Trott, 22, came 55th in the inaugural Women’s Tour earlier this month, a professional women’s road race on an unprecedented scale in Britain.

She said: ‘I think it’s a great step. It’s quite smart to say we don’t want it to run alongside the men’s race. I think women’s road race will continue to grow. It’s slowly getting bigger and it’s nice that GB is leading the way.’

Trott also endorses La Course by Le Tour, a one-day stage at the finish of the Tour de France for women road racers but stops short of getting behind the petition by Olympic teammate Emma Pooley and Dutch Olympic road race champion Marianne Vos for a women’s Tour de France.

She says: ‘I’m not so swayed on the whole Tour de France idea. They do have a stage race (La Course) but some women don’t agree with it because it doesn’t go up the classic hills. But I just don’t think it should run along the same course as the men’s because we would never, ever complete 300km. You’d get two riders rolling in after 10 hours.'

‘There’d be deaths,’ Kenny predicts.

‘I just don’t think it would be realistic,’ adds Trott, ‘We ride a tour for five days and at the end of it we’re completely knackered. For three weeks - no chance. I certainly wouldn’t finish, put it that way.’

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/othersports/article-2634180/Jason-Kenny-Laura-Trott-admit-medals-Commonwealth-Games-no-big-deal.html#ixzz32Tydm9BU
"



I dunno about this ... other evidence suggest that - whilst women are typically ~10% slower than men in 'endurance' sports - they start to claw back ground over multi-day events. Results of ultra-runs support this, with quite a few female overall winners.
So a 3-week race should be ok.

And "300km" ?!? I know there are some 1day races of that length, but the Grand Tours rarely get much past 200km. ???
Has never ridden RAAM
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No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Karla

  • car(e) free
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Re: Pooley's Petition for a Women's TdF
« Reply #109 on: May 22, 2014, 10:42:11 pm »
‘I just don’t think it would be realistic,’ adds Trott, ‘We ride a tour for five days and at the end of it we’re completely knackered. For three weeks - no chance. I certainly wouldn’t finish, put it that way.’

Yebbut she's a track rider!

David Martin

  • Thats Dr Oi You thankyouverymuch
Re: Pooley's Petition for a Women's TdF
« Reply #110 on: May 22, 2014, 10:45:10 pm »
At the moment women's races are so short that tactics don't play as significant a role as in the men's. Allowing races of 200km would be fine. However the field sizes are currently small and diverse abilities. The Scottish National champs had a field of 14, and I'm pretty sure one of those names was down just to take the race over the minimum needed to hold it.

I would expect a few years of development with colsed circuits such as York to bring people into  the sport will lead to bigger and stronger fields. The average Scottish 3&4ths mens race is already at a brutal standard as there are not enough races and too many riders chasing points at that level.
"By creating we think. By living we learn" - Patrick Geddes

TimC

  • Bike pilot
Re: Pooley's Petition for a Women's TdF
« Reply #111 on: May 23, 2014, 10:00:40 am »
I think it's far too early to be talking in terms of a women's Grand Tour event. I have no doubt that, in time, there will be enough elite women riders and enough suitable preparatory races to allow a Grand Tour to happen, but it's a very big step from one 500km 5-day stage race to a Grand Tour.

Allow the average daily distance to go up to 150km, and get a few more 5/6/7 day races, and the foundations will be in place for something a bit more ambitious. It'll take a while yet, but wouldn't it be great if the first women's Grand Tour was in Britain?

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Pooley's Petition for a Women's TdF
« Reply #112 on: May 23, 2014, 10:15:55 am »
There have been several high quality women's stage races previously including Tour Feminin in France, Giro Donne in Italy and the Ore-Ida Challenge in the USA. The British event was comparatively unchallenging.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

TimC

  • Bike pilot
Re: Pooley's Petition for a Women's TdF
« Reply #113 on: May 23, 2014, 10:32:37 am »
Yes, there have. But they mostly don't exist now, and the current generation of riders have never experienced the 15-stage format of the 1990s Tour Féminin. The Women's Challenge (Ore-Ida) was last held in 2002. The Giro Rosa seems not to be happening in 2014, and the Giro Donne as was had reduced to 8 stages by last year - and still subject to the UCI 100km average stage length restriction. While the Women's Tour was a pale shadow of a Grand Tour, it would appear to have some momentum behind it and the enthusiasm for cycle racing in this country bodes well for its future. It may be a bit ambitious to hope that it could become the premier women's stage race, but why not?

Re: Pooley's Petition for a Women's TdF
« Reply #114 on: May 28, 2014, 12:19:07 pm »
How can I work the fact that the UK was first with a lady Frances de la Tour into the thread? I can't, oh well.