MH370 missing

[ian]

I think the plane crash landed on some random island – the few survivors are starting to learn strange things about one another and their previous lives, while randomly encountering strange supernatural and inexplicable events.

It will go on for six series and be shit.

There will be bears too. Just like in Surrey. Perhaps it landed in Surrey.

(Lost was worth it for the series summaries. You didn't actually need the episodes.)

[hatler]

Perhaps this is just reality TV going that one step further ....

[geraldc]

Now they are saying hijacked and flown somewhere. This is too crazy

[spesh]

Now they are saying hijacked and flown somewhere. This is too crazy

Technically, the Malaysians aren't explicitly saying "hijack" - all we know is that someone with the technical nous to try to put a 777 in "stealth mode" has taken the plane off its intended route, and has used known way-points to take the plane off course.

Given that the flight crew cannot be ruled out as the perpetrators of this disappearing act, this could just as easily be the aviation equivalent of barratry as defined under admiralty law:

In admiralty law, barratry is an act of gross misconduct committed by a master or crew of a vessel which damages the vessel or its cargo. These activities may include desertion, illegal scuttling, theft of the ship or cargo, and committing any actions which may not be in the shipowner's best interests by the master or crew.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barratry_(admiralty_law)

[Pancho]

But it must have put down somewhere. And I'm sure someone would have noticed a rogue 777 sneaking onto their airfield, it must have crashed.

[geraldc]

So pilot decided to disappear as a mystery rather than topping himself in the traditional way. Hopefully it will be an overly ambitious ransom scheme, and they're sitting on makeshift runway somewhere in some lawless part of Asia.

[Canardly]

Hows this for a theory. Terrorists attempt to take over plane. Pilot susses is another 9/11 attempt, turns off every possible aid for a part trained terrorist pilot and flies the thing as far away from any potential target until the fuel runs out. Too far fetched?

[Pedal Castro]

Scrap metal theft, obviously...

[Kim]

Hows this for a theory. Terrorists attempt to take over plane. Pilot susses is another 9/11 attempt, turns off every possible aid for a part trained terrorist pilot and flies the thing as far away from any potential target until the fuel runs out. Too far fetched?

Why would you turn the transponder off, rather than setting it to 'hijack'?

[Canardly]

Drawing board here I come.   

[αdαmsκι]

I'm just putting this out there, but has anyone considered the possibility that there were some motherf**king snakes on the motherf**king plane?

[Kim]

I'm just putting this out there, but has anyone considered the possibility that there were some motherf**king snakes on the motherf**king plane?

A friend of mine works at air traffic control.  An emergency involving a cargo of uncontrolled reptiles came up recently in a training scenario, so it seems they're prepared for that.

[TheLurker]

Hows this for a theory. Terrorists attempt to take over plane. Pilot susses is another 9/11 attempt, turns off every possible aid for a part trained terrorist pilot and flies the thing as far away from any potential target until the fuel runs out. Too far fetched?

Why would you turn the transponder off, rather than setting it to 'hijack'?

Because, as Canardly suggested, the hijacker is "part trained".  That training may have included basic how to evade detection techniques and our hypothetical hijacker knew enough to ensure that emergency beacons were not enabled.  So rather than the pilot switching off beacons it was the hijacker.  Why? I don't know.  Perhaps to prevent an intercept and shoot down by someone's military if the aeroplane was found to be heading somewhere sensitive.

[+paul]

Doesn't seem to say much for the early warning radar (military) systems we are all supposed to be protected by. Turn off the transponder, and the aircraft disappears? Of course I recognise that the countries towards which the aircraft flew may not be so well equipped. Also, since there appears to be monitoring equipment in contact with satellites transmitting operating information back to Boeing and Rolls Royce, how come they don't add a gps receiver and transmit the location as well? Wouldn't cost much, and it could be set up so it cannot be disabled from the cockpit.

I can't begin to imagine how the relatives must be feeling....

[Jaded]

I can't begin to imagine how the relatives must be feeling....

This, in spades.

They were alive, then they were dead, now who knows.

[David Martin]

Did the flight list include a Dr Schroedinger and his pet cat?

[Ningishzidda]

Before the plane can go absolutely silent, ALL iPhones, iPads and Android Smartphones must be switched off.

[Pancho]

Did the flight list include a Dr Schroedinger and his pet cat?

If it was a plane full of cats[1], they'd all be both dead and alive - until someone finds the plane and takes a look.

[1] Never did understand that cat-in-a-box thing? What if it's a man in the box? What's special about cats? Mine sleep a lot so are half dead.

[Diver300]

information back to Boeing and Rolls Royce, how come they don't add a gps receiver and transmit the location as well?

They never felt the need. I would assume that they have the serial number of the engine from which the data comes, and with $lots engines, they know who owns each one, and if they have some information about the engine to give to  the owner, they want the email address of the maintenance department, not the current location.

The airline hadn't bothered subscribing to any services like that. The information coming back was just an hourly signal to prove it was working.

I suspect that GPS receivers will be in the the next version of the engine monitoring equipment. I also suspect that the manufacturers and airline will one day have some tiny airflow powered tracking units fitted, with no electrical connection to the rest of the plane.

[Kim]

[1] Never did understand that cat-in-a-box thing? What if it's a man in the box? What's special about cats? Mine sleep a lot so are half dead.

It doesn't need to be a cat, or even something capable of dying.  Just a thing that exhibits a macroscopic response to the emission of a particle (the isotope sample, geiger counter and poison gas that are key to the original thought experiment tend to be overlooked in popular culture).

The point is that the box is sealed for a period of time in which there's a 50% chance of an atom in the sample decaying.  During that time, because the box is sealed you have no way of knowing whether an atom has decayed and the geiger counter has triggered the poison and killed the cat, in the same way that you don't know the state of a superposed particle.

That's it.  It's simply a metaphor for understanding states of quantum superposition (and how they represent a state of "can't know" rather than "magic two-contradictory-things-at-the-same-time-ness").

[Kim]

Before the plane can go absolutely silent, ALL iPhones, iPads and Android Smartphones must be switched off.

That isn't an entirely stupid point (assuming that a sensible hijacker hasn't first rounded up all the cellular devices).  While they're obviously going to be no use over water or for making calls at speed/altitude, you'd wonder if a list of IMEIs could be correlated with the logs of half of Asia's cellular networks.  It's a needle in a haystack, but computers are good at that.

First, make your list of IMEIs...

[spesh]

Before the plane can go absolutely silent, ALL iPhones, iPads and Android Smartphones must be switched off.

Regarding the passengers electronic devices, can I refer everybody to the post that pcolbeck made back on page 2?

https://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=80773.msg1654747#msg1654747

Facts about Mobile Communications On-board Aircraft (MCA) technology

<snipped>

How do MCA systems work?

The signal is received by an antenna on board the aircraft and sent to the ground network via a satellite connection. The signal is limited in power to ensure it does not interference with other communications.

The system is based on three main parts: the mobile terminals, the Network Control Unit, and the aircraft base station.

    ·Mobile terminals on aircraft: passengers increasingly wish to use their 3G or 4G mobile devices (smartphones, tablets, laptops etc.) on board aircraft to transfer data; the amount of data transferred on board already exceeds voice data.

    ·the Network Control Unit (NCU): is mounted on board the aircraft and is a kind of jammer which prevents mobile terminals connecting to, and interfering with ground-based systems, and ensure they connect only to an Aircraft Base Station (see below)

    ·Aircraft Base Station: the antenna to which mobile terminals connect; it takes the form of a cable running along the ceiling of the cabin.

Switch off the relevant satcomms system connected to the Aircraft Base Station, and you don't need to confiscate and switch off all of the passengers' electronic devices.

[Kim]

Right.  But switch off the base station and the devices will crank up the power and attempt to connect (mostly unsuccessfully) with cells on the ground.  Severing the link while keeping the base station active is going to be relatively subtle.  Of course, all evidence so far indicates someone who knows what they're doing...

[spesh]

Doesn't seem to say much for the early warning radar (military) systems we are all supposed to be protected by. Turn off the transponder, and the aircraft disappears?

Radar 101:

You may have noticed that the reports on MH370 have mentioned primary radar and secondary radar.

Primary radar is what is used to detect, and obtain positional data on, airborne objects. It transmits RF energy, and uses what is reflected back to the receiver to build a picture of what is out there in terms of range and bearing from the radar system. Primary radar does not need to rely on the cooperation of any systems on board an aircraft in order to detect it.

Secondary radar is the civilian version of the Identification Friend or Foe system that the military use. This transmits a pulsed signal which is picked up by a receiver on an aircraft. The transponder then broadcasts a coded signal giving information about the identity of the aircraft, and/or its altitude. This information is tagged alongside the icon representing the aircraft on a radar operator's screen.

Switching off the transponder does not render an aircraft invisible, it merely makes it "unidentified".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secondary_surveillance_radar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transponder_(aviation)

Of course I recognise that the countries towards which the aircraft flew may not be so well equipped.

Any radar network is only as good as the equipment (coverage, resistance to countermeasures, etc)and its operators. The latter point is crucial - are radars in operation 24/7, how well trained are the operators, what procedures are in place in the event of an unidentified or unresponsive aircraft being detected?

Remember Matthias Rust? He flew a Cessna light aircraft through what - at the time - was though to be one of the most heavily-defended bits of air space in the world, and landed in Red Square...

[Asterix, the former Gaul.]

"Remember Matthias Rust? He flew a Cessna light aircraft through what - at the time - was though to be one of the most heavily-defended bits of air space in the world, and landed in Red Square..."

Because it looked so ordinary and explicable and no one expected such a stunt.

To most people a civil passenger aircraft looks pretty ordinary and it wasn't reported missing until long after it actually was. So whilst it was flying no one was looking out for it as such.

My aviator cousin doesn't rate it as being that difficult to make off with an airliner in that part of the world, especially one belonging to an outfit like Malaysia Airlines!