Group riding etiquette

[citoyen]

Had a minor falling out with another rider last week over a matter of group riding etiquette. Would be interested to hear the thoughts of others.

It was an organised event but I was riding solo at the time.

A group started to come past me, passing very close. The second rider in the line started cutting back in before he was fully past me and almost clipped my front wheel. I had to shout a warning to him. A few more riders came by, also very close and cutting in quite tightly but not as bad as that first idiot.

There were still a couple of riders left to pass me when the gradient turned upwards very slightly and the front of the group slowed down, which caused the gap between me and the rider in front to close up, preventing the next rider in line from cutting in.

He then made a sarky comment about me leaving him dangling in the wind. I suggested that if there wasn't room for the group to overtake properly, they should have waited behind me (actually, it was a wide road with no traffic so there really was no need to pass so closely). He told me to fuck off and sped off to the front of the group rather than continue the discussion.

I saw him at the next feed station and went over to apologise for my tetchiness, explaining that I was pissed off with the rider who had nearly taken out my front wheel rather than him. He started having a go at me, questioning my experience and ability to ride with a group.

Annoyingly, it was only later that I realised that I should have replied to that by pointing out that I wasn't part of the group and didn't want to be, and that rather than have a go at me, he should have had a word with some of the other members of the group (he was in a club jersey and clearly a very experienced rider but I question the ability of some of the other members of the group, having ridden with some of them at different parts of the ride, which is part of the reason I preferred to ride alone). Instead I tried to be conciliatory over what was really just a silly misunderstanding but he felt I was in the wrong and wouldn't have it any other way. We left it at that and avoided each other for the rest of the ride.

I feel that all I was doing was maintaining a steady pace. I don't believe I was speeding up, as he claimed - I tried to point out that it was the group that was slowing rather than me speeding up, but he wouldn't have it – and I certainly didn't deliberately block him out. To maintain the gap between me and the rider in front, I would have had to apply the brakes - which is something I try to avoid doing in situations when I don't know who is behind me.

Besides which, I also felt it was fucking rude of them to cut in front of me like that. Surely a group passing a solo rider is obliged to give plenty of room and not ride in a way that forces the solo rider to change their line or speed?

What it comes down to is that there was a difference of opinion in our respective interpretations of the situation. I feel he was treating me as if I were part of the group. I didn't want to be part of the group, I was happy riding by myself at that part of the ride, and I felt that the group should have given me more room.

Should I have slowed down to allow the other rider to cut in, or was I entitled to hold my line and pace? Was he entitled to take his place in the line and was I wrong to "block" him?

It was just a stupid situation, nothing bad happened, but it left me feeling pissed off and spoiled my mood for a while. But I would like to get some opinions on the etiquette in situations like that.

Initially, I was convinced I was in the right, but what made me really start to doubt my sanity was that a few miles further on, another group passed me - a much faster group in a tighter formation. They looked like more experienced riders, all used to riding in fast groups. Again they passed very closely and again they cut in very sharply so that again I had to warn one of the riders to avoid having my front wheel clipped.

I did then start to wonder if perhaps it was me who was in the wrong - although other groups had managed to pass me without nearly knocking me off, so I just don't know...
 

[ACyclingRooster]

Hi citoyen. For what it is worth I cycle alone and often come across the 'Self made pretend pelotons and the make believe tour riders.
What an ignorant bunch of arse-holes most of them are - they will not give way nor will they move out of double and treble formation. I see them regularly riding the country lanes where I live and they are often a pile-up waiting to happen - they take corners extremely wide and their gobs open and already in full flow of abuse and four letter expletives.
All it will take is the couple up front to not read the road properly and the solicitors will be rubbing their hands all of the way to the bank.

I have often been kept driving at below 20mph for a mile or so until I get a long and clear enough stretch of straight road to pass quickly and safely and often only to get overtaken at the next junction by the suicide jockey mentality of the leader and his brainless mob of inconsiderate and ignorant idiots.

[Samuel D]

I don’t know much about etiquette, though I ride in informal groups. However, while riding solo I often encounter close passes of the type you describe. I think it’s a combination of three things:

• The riders think you’re experienced and will hold your line.
• While catching you, the lead rider wants to benefit from your slipstream for as long as possible, so they swerve out late.
• The riders, usually testosterone-charged males, enjoy showing off their speed to you, for which a close pass works best.

It’s a bit dumb.

When in a paceline passing someone too closely, I pull out even though it means hitting the wind. The riders behind me then follow me, at least fixing half the problem.

[citoyen]

For what it is worth I cycle alone and often come across the 'Self made pretend pelotons and the make believe tour riders.

To be fair, that's not really the kind of thing I'm talking about. On this event, on the whole, riding standards were high. It certainly wasn't like a typical sportive and I don't feel there was a problem with rider behaviour. Group riding was encouraged by the organisers for all the right reasons - it's more sociable and you make better progress as a group - and there were also designated 'Chaperones' to offer guidance and support to less experienced riders.

I'm talking about a particular incident that amounts to a misunderstanding / difference of opinion between two riders about a technical matter of group riding, rather than an interaction between a group of cyclists and other road users. There was nothing in it that would give other road users a bad opinion of cyclists - really it was just two idiots flapping handbags at each other.

[Hot Flatus]

Bunch of dicks.  End of.  Sportive, perchance? Dicks love sportives.

I was on an audax in devon/Somerset last March, on my own, and a 3 man peloton came grunting past me, making a big show of it, and were inches away from me. They didn't even say hello.

I passed them on the next hill. Said hello, which was ignored, and they then tried to chase me down on the flat, passing again far too close and actually looking away from me.

About 10 minutes later I found them stationary at the side of a big descent, tending over one of them who was on the ground covered in blood.

Dicks.

[citoyen]

• While catching you, the lead rider wants to benefit from your slipstream for as long as possible, so they swerve out late.

I think that's probably what happened in the second case. I was slightly pissed off with them but they did seem to have more of a clue. I'd say they just made a wrong assumption about me - probably thought I would want to tag on (as I did on a few other occasions when a strong group came past).

In the first incident though, the front of the group noticeably slowed down as soon as the gradient went up slightly, which to me is a sign of inexperience.

When in a paceline passing someone too closely, I pull out even though it means hitting the wind. The riders behind me then follow me, at least fixing half the problem.

I can think of a few occasions on the same event when I was riding as part of a group, and as the front rider made a point of giving plenty of room when passing solo riders or smaller groups. Also giving a shout to warn that you're coming past. As you say, the riders behind tend to follow the example of the riders in front.

I also feel that you need to be flexible too and not always assume that the group formation can hold - sometimes gaps close or open up due to the natural ebb and flow and you just work around them, right?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Racers and other riders who are close to their limit will skim as close as possible to slower riders, for the reduced drag. Many people forget that a slower rider exists (and is still moving forward) as soon as they get in front of them. Unless the front rider is thoughtful, they'll swing in too soon, before the whole bunch has overtaken the slower rider. It is made much worse if there is a crosswind towards the slower rider.

Tap the elbow or hip of anybody passing too close, whether they are the first one overtaking you or down the line. If they have ever raced, they know that means 'give some more room'.

If the group still cuts you up while passing, just leave the next bloke out in the wind and don't feel guilty about it. Lean into them if needed. They'll learn to give a bit more room eventually.

If you want to ride alone slower than an overtaking group, it is easier to soft pedal for ten seconds or so to get them all past you than using the same effort throughout. The pass is quicker and you avoid speeding yourself up from the reduced drag behind the front rider.

[citoyen]

Bunch of dicks.  End of.  Sportive, perchance? Dicks love sportives.

Kind of but not exactly. Big charity ride, mechanical support, feed stations, but otherwise not very sportive-like at all. Very mixed ability of riders though - some strong, experienced riders, some more or less novices. The chaperones were good - I'd like to see more chaperones on organised events. One of them was a chap you may have heard of - a certain M. Burton.

About 10 minutes later I found then stationary at the side of a big descent, tending over one off them who was on the ground covered in blood.

I shouldn't really have laughed at that...

[citoyen]

Tap the elbow or hip of anybody passing too close, whether they are the first one overtaking you or down the line. If they have ever raced, they know that means 'give some more room'.

That's useful to know, thanks.

If you want to ride alone slower than an overtaking group, it is easier to soft pedal for ten seconds or so to get them all past you than using the same effort throughout. The pass is quicker and you avoid speeding yourself up from the reduced drag behind the front rider.

I felt adamant at the time that I was holding my pace but it did occur to me afterwards that I might have been inadvertently speeding up slightly for the reasons you say. I'll try to remember this next time it happens.

I maintain that the front of the group did slow down once they'd passed me though.

[Basil]

I was on a little bimble around the lanes south of Brum with a mate.  Just the two of us having a pleasant afternoon, when some guy appeared from nowhere, screaming at my mate that he'd 'taken his line'. 
Wtf.  We had no idea where he'd turned up from.  We had a lovely shouty sweary match until we just started laughing and he stormed off.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Quite possibly the group did slow down after they overtook you. Sometimes a group will accelerate a little for a quicker pass after slowly gaining ground on a slower rider but relax back into the previous pace (i.e. slowing down).

Sometimes a rider at the front will ride at constant effort, which can mean that hills are ridden comparatively easier than others expect. The front and back of a group expend different proportions of their effort in overcoming wind drag versus altitude gain. If there is a wind or gradient change, it can disproportionately affect the speed of the front of the group relative to the back of the group.

[Phil W]

From your account you didn't do anything wrong. It wasn't a race and you certainly did not need to concede the road to them.  I find if you wobble after the first or second pass that soon creates some space. If they complain you say you got caught in the back wash from the close pass as speed.

[mattc]

I maintain that the front of the group did slow down once they'd passed me though.

That is the norm when the road turns uphill. Whatever the level of experience.

+1 to "You did nothing wrong" comments. &
+1 to LWAB's comments.
...
(so far ... )

[ElyDave]

Doesn't sound to me like you did anything wrong. Perhaps they thought you were either slower or slowing which led them to think they could cut in quickly?

A quick "watch it" is not out of order, the equivalent of a tap on the horn.

You can never account for peoples responses though, and perhaps better not to engage at the feed station in front of his mates where he may feel a need to defend his position.  I have an example back when I was refereeing rugby where I'd made a decision that someone objected to, told him we could chat in the bar afterwards to allow the game to move on without me needing to send him off.  He refused to let it go in the bar either, to the extent that the rest of his team felt the need to apologise to me.

[citoyen]

If there is a wind or gradient change, it can disproportionately affect the speed of the front of the group relative to the back of the group.

That makes sense. The question really is what's the best thing to do when that happens? Should I have made more effort to slow down to let the rider to the side retake his place in the line?

I would tend towards the view that you have to be a bit flexible and go with the ebb and flow of the group, not just assume that you are entitled to take your place regardless of circumstances. If the other rider hadn't flounced off, I would probably have allowed the gap to open back up naturally within not very many seconds to let him back in.

[Somnolent]

They may look naff, but utimately the answer may be mirrors.
Car or motorbike coming up from behind looking like they may not give you enough space? Start inching out to the right, giving yourself a bit of room to swerve into if, in the event, they are truly a nob.
Ditto cyclists - especially those who are working a bit hard to pass you.  Or, with that extra bit of warning, you can seruptiously give it a bit more gas to leave them in the wind that bit longer. 

[Bledlow]

I maintain that the front of the group did slow down once they'd passed me though.

That is the norm when the road turns uphill. Whatever the level of experience.

+1 to "You did nothing wrong" comments. &
+1 to LWAB's comments.
...
(so far ... )

+1 to all that.

[Gareth Rees]

While we're on the subject, what's the etiquette if you do want to tag onto a group that's overtaking you? Should you take your turn in the rotation, or is it better to stay at the back? On the one hand it only seems polite to do your turn of work, but on the other hand it seems rude to push in where you might not be wanted, especially since you don't know the group's signals and conventions.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Generally hop on at the back, leave a slightly bigger gap than normal and watch what happens when the front rider drops back. If they squeeze into the gap, you stay at the back. If they drop behind you, do your turns.

Or you could talk with your fellow riders but who wants to do that?

[Basil]

Or you could talk with your fellow riders but who wants to do that?

 . 

[LittleWheelsandBig]

If somebody is hanging in a fast group by their fingernails, they will do whatever is necessary to stay in the draft, otherwise they are off the back. The back end of a fast group will often accumulate fatigued marginal riders who have switched off their brains. These bunches become the cycling equivalent of a HGV with the trailer cutting you up if the group's 'driver' hasn't adequately allowed for the length of his 'vehicle'. The same thing happens when traffic lights change.

I've been there often enough to have some sympathy with tired riders barely hanging on and will cut these groups some slack, provided they don't extract too much urine. I'm not going to let them take me out though.

[Samuel D]

I also feel that you need to be flexible too and not always assume that the group formation can hold - sometimes gaps close or open up due to the natural ebb and flow and you just work around them, right?

I think so, yes.

I’ve noticed those tired riders mentioned by LittleWheelsandBig also have a tendency to veer all over the road as they desperately ‘hunt the quiet’ (a cycling brand – maybe Specialized? – had something like this as a slogan for a while. I thought it was brilliant!). The longer the group, the more exaggerated this lateral veering becomes. In addition, you’ve got the longitudinal effet d’élastique (I can’t get Laurent Jalabert out of my head). For these reasons, the back of a big, fast group tends to be a mess. People are breathing through their bottoms and half-consciously taking risks to hang on.

[jamesld8]

You were out enjoying your ride in your own way, they cut you up as you describe it and IMO you were quite right to be annoyed tell then to fxxx off. They don`t own the road, no matter how faster / better ?? riders they may have been. Bunch of idiots 

[Pedaldog.]

You were out enjoying your ride in your own way, they cut you up as you describe it and IMO you were quite right to be annoyed tell then to fxxx off. They don`t own the road, no matter how faster / better ?? riders they may have been. Bunch of idiots 

Would you have worried about your response if it had been a "Parp-Parp" or a motybike "Nearly clipping your front wheel"?   bike, horse, car, taxi, bus are all just controlled by people. Smegheads will be smegheads and deserve a wet fish round the back of their head.

[spesh]

You were out enjoying your ride in your own way, they cut you up as you describe it and IMO you were quite right to be annoyed tell then to fxxx off. They don`t own the road, no matter how faster / better ?? riders they may have been. Bunch of idiots 

Would you have worried about your response if it had been a "Parp-Parp" or a motybike "Nearly clipping your front wheel"?   bike, horse, car, taxi, bus are all just controlled by people. Smegheads will be smegheads and deserve a wet fish round the back of their head.

Preferably at least halibut-sized.